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Downhill Spiral

245

Comments

  • edited December 2010
    I'd also like to suggest that people look up the meaning of the word apophenia.
  • edited December 2010
    In Response to Re: Downhill Spiral:
    I'd also like to suggest that people look up the meaning of the word apophenia .
    Posted by MereNovice

    Without looking it up I think it's a posh word for what I said init.

  • edited December 2010
    In Response to Re: Downhill Spiral:
    In Response to Re: Downhill Spiral : Without looking it up I think it's a posh word for what I said init.
    Posted by elsadog
    For part of it, yes.  :-)))


  • edited December 2010
    Explaining what appears to be anomalous is very difficult to put into words, as I said earlier it can't be proven
    Well it can...log a million or so hands and if anomolies are present you should be able to spot them! This is always where the Area 51 arguments fall down...no data to back up the anecdotal evidence.
    I looked into the question of RNG's a few years ago and as I remember it there is no way to produce a truly random selection from a machine. It may have changed in the last few years but it was generally known that a random factor has to be built into the works and that most sites used ''the clock'' in order to trigger the deal.

    While it's true a computer RNG is never 100% random it's so close it makes no practical difference. Most RNG methods rely on some outside input as a "seed" for the randomness and it's true in simple systems this would be taken from the computer's clock, but RNGs used by gaming companies are more sophisticated than that. To generate randomness they use things like audio patterns from radio on random frequencies, audio of traffic noise, even the decay of radioactive samples!

    I'm not even going to get into auditing and other reasons any RNG meddling would be noticed and proved quickly if it was actually happening.



  • edited December 2010
    conspiracy theories ftw
  • edited December 2010
    Great first post elsa xxx
  • edited December 2010
    In Response to Re: Downhill Spiral:
    In Response to Re: Downhill Spiral : You certainly seem to be unfamiliar with the concept of irony.
    Posted by MereNovice
    My familiarity with irony is my great concept,you too?
  • edited December 2010
    In Response to Re: Downhill Spiral:
    In Response to Re: Downhill Spiral : My familiarity with irony is my great concept,you too?
    Posted by debdobs_67
    Are you claiming that every time you post that Sky Poker is fixed that you're being ironic?

    When you claimed that DYMs are "not poker in any shape or form", you were being ironic?

    As a prize winner, when you criticised someone for posting pointless one-liners, you were being ironic?

  • edited December 2010
    Merenovice, Great posts as always Sir!! 
  • edited December 2010
    I can tell you when Mere ... when we started americanising our language and culture and you now have to explain things to the nth degree for some of our less learned associates,(which i wouldn't consider myself to be one of)but i have grown up amongst a family of quick witted reprobates!!!!!!
  • edited December 2010
    Everytime i read these posts about 'poor players' winning and im a decent player with 5 years experience and lose both live and on line etc etc i have to laugh. Selective memory comes to mind, or playing beyond bankroll. Give me these callers anyday of the week please.
  • edited December 2010
    In Response to Re: Downhill Spiral:
    Finally, the exit hand from the Open. Well I'm sat with some friends who have turned up out of the blue. I mentioned that I had a game to play but that it wouldn't take long. So a few of us went into the dining room and we chatted as I played. I made a little progress initially and then I'm on the button. I get pocket 5's. I said I'm going to limp with this and just watch what happens. I limp, SB folds and BB calls. Flop comes 44x and I said to those watching ''he has a 4 and I'm going out of the tourney here. Sure enough he had the 4 .......... now what a coincidence, but then I'm probably just seeing those patterns again. 
    Posted by elsadog
    Ok im going to just be straight forward and brief here. You was chatting whilst playing, maybe your concentration suffers? But anyways to the hand... you're on the button and limp with 55. Ok if you were the first to voluntarily put money in the pot (folded round to you) then I really don't understand why you didn't raise here. If someone limped before you or you just flatted a raise then ok. Flop 44x... you have the smallest overpair possible. If you was short stacked before the hand I think it would have been better for you to shove preflop. If you wasn't short then I dont see how you stacked off here unless another 5 came. You told yourself he had the 4 (nice hand reading skills) but you wasn't able to let it go... maybe that's a problem?
    My point is, the hand just sounds badly played... and that's nothing to do with randomness.
  • edited December 2010
    playing in a live game last night i had to ask the dealer for is rng cerificate, he was a cad and a bounder. aa busted by jacks. trips busted by  2 straight draws and 1 flush draw. to top it off, got to hu and 45min into it my ad 7d v a5= A 8d 10d 2 and yes a 5! not the 5 of diamonds no no no just a plain old 5. a real horrible night of bad beats , but walked away with £1oo for 2nd. it happens live ,it happens on line, the problem comes when it happens every single day. my personal belief for what it is worth. no site is rigged for a player/group of players thats for sure. do more "glam hands" happen on line compared to live, i believe so. how why dont know dont care, but i have adapted my game to compenstate.( losing at a slower rate now lol). my motto of next year is to "believe in the unbelievable" phil
  • edited December 2010
    In Response to Re: Downhill Spiral:
    Well it can...log a million or so hands and if anomolies are present you should be able to spot them! This is always where the Area 51 arguments fall down...no data to back up the anecdotal evidence. While it's true a computer RNG is never 100% random it's so close it makes no practical difference. Most RNG methods rely on some outside input as a "seed" for the randomness and it's true in simple systems this would be taken from the computer's clock, but RNGs used by gaming companies are more sophisticated than that. To generate randomness they use things like audio patterns from radio on random frequencies, audio of traffic noise, even the decay of radioactive samples! I'm not even going to get into auditing and other reasons any RNG meddling would be noticed and proved quickly if it was actually happening.
    Posted by DannyMcs
    Fine Post Danny, you clearly understand how these things work, & it's no surprise you are doing so well lately - "common-sense" goes a long way when you are up against people who read too many comics, or can't handle the game's perfectly standard ups & downs.

    Many congrats, too, on that "near-miss" in the VLV Semi-Final. Missing the Seat in the Final but netting £990 (?) ain't so bad, eh? 
  • edited December 2010
    In Response to Re: Downhill Spiral:
    In Response to Re: Downhill Spiral : Ok im going to just be straight forward and brief here. You was chatting whilst playing, maybe your concentration suffers? But anyways to the hand... you're on the button and limp with 55. Ok if you were the first to voluntarily put money in the pot (folded round to you) then I really don't understand why you didn't raise here. If someone limped before you or you just flatted a raise then ok. Flop 44x... you have the smallest overpair possible. If you was short stacked before the hand I think it would have been better for you to shove preflop. If you wasn't short then I dont see how you stacked off here unless another 5 came. You told yourself he had the 4 (nice hand reading skills) but you wasn't able to let it go... maybe that's a problem? My point is, the hand just sounds badly played... and that's nothing to do with randomness.
    Posted by BlackFish3

    You miss the point completely. I played it that way purposely. I said the OP would hit because I had intentionally flat called. When the flop came I said he would have the 4. This wasn't skilful reading of the situation. I played it to the end to prove to my friends that he did indeed have the 4. 

    You will see this time after time at the tables where a player fails to knock a weak hand off and the weak hand hits big time. It's not the fact that this happens, it's the regularity that is the problem. Shove poker FTW. 



  • edited December 2010
    In Response to Re: Downhill Spiral:
    In Response to Re: Downhill Spiral : Fine Post Danny, you clearly understand how these things work, & it's no surprise you are doing so well lately - "common-sense" goes a long way when you are up against people who read too many comics, or can't handle the game's perfectly standard ups & downs. Many congrats, too, on that "near-miss" in the VLV Semi-Final. Missing the Seat in the Final but netting £990 (?) ain't so bad, eh? 
    Posted by Tikay10

    I don't read comics, and playing only tournaments means there are going to be more downs than ups for me. This is not about losing or winning it's about what I (and others) see. 

    I am not surprised at your stance on this subject, but I am surprised at the cheap jibes. 


  • edited December 2010
    Some people may run good when they 1st join the site, others will run bad. Also people may just get used to how u play, and if you can't vary your play, then u become super easy 2 read

    and more players who fail to understand that online has become tougher, and cant accept that, that maybe the reason they either cant win / or dont win as much as they used to as they have failed to improve themselves  
  • edited December 2010
    1.  Online is tougher than live so it is gonna be harder to beat.

    2.  Howvever online has an anonimity(sp?) factor to it, so some people don't mind gambling more than they would do live.

    3. Sky uses mainly 6 max tables.  These are far more action and thus mean higher variance than on other sites which are mainly FR/live.

    4.  You play far more hands online than live so variance is gonna take hold far quicker.

    5.  Sky is a fairly tight knit community.  Usually when I'm playing a tournie I'll be at a table with 2/3 people who I have literally played thousands and thousands of hands with, and the other 2/3 I will have some small notes or will usually recognise and have a general idea of how they play.  If you are a total newbie to the site then no one will know you game at all.

    For example for the first time ever yesterday I played a load of 1.10/2.20 tournies (The only way I'm gonna get in the TSP freeroll is via tournie points so grind grind grind) and on one particular table I had notes on 4 players.

    6.  Finally you may not be as good as you think you are.  Your first week/month was just a fluke and you are using these good old days to reinforce the idea that you are not a 'fish', so rather than accepting that you need to change your game you are blaming other people.

  • edited December 2010

    Everyone has a right to their own opinion and that is great as it makes for healthy debate,i myself am an average player and i have no god given right to win BUT i do invariably get my money/chips in when i am in front so i DO expect to win the hand more often than not,but the fact remains that i dont,xxx

  • edited December 2010
    In Response to Re: Downhill Spiral:
    Everyone has a right to their own opinion and that is great as it makes for healthy debate,i myself am an average player and i have no god given right to win BUT i do invariably get my money/chips in when i am in front so i DO expect to win the hand more often than not,but the fact remains that i dont,xxx
    Posted by debdobs_67
    My flatmate has been saying this for some time... do you sit down with 40 bb's or 100 bb's?
  • edited December 2010
    I have had 3 weeks of this, money in ahead, end of my tourney, cash game bad beats to the hilt!!

    Then last night I played the 9.25 £2.25 BH (donk hunter)

    I got at least 10 horrific calls against my big aces and big pairs and 10 times my best hand held up, hence 10 bounties and £14 in the bankroll (ty donks)

    The best one was guy raises 5 x BB with A9 I have A10 I flat call, flop is A 10 3 rainbow, I check, he shoves 8,000 chips (BB = 150) and I gleefully call,

    I went on to finish second for another £31 so £43 profit for my £2 outlay.

    In the 3 weeks of pain I was about £40 down so 1 tournament repaired the damage!!

    Todays SESAME STREET WORD OF THE DAY IS..........VARIANCE

    Dave
  • edited December 2010
    In Response to Re: Downhill Spiral:
    Everyone has a right to their own opinion and that is great as it makes for healthy debate,i myself am an average player and i have no god given right to win BUT i do invariably get my money/chips in when i am in front so i DO expect to win the hand more often than not,but the fact remains that i dont,xxx
    Posted by debdobs_67
    i'm guessing you keep no records to back this up?

    selective memory perhaps?
  • edited December 2010
    In Response to Re: Downhill Spiral:
    In Response to Re: Downhill Spiral : i'm guessing you keep no records to back this up? selective memory perhaps?
    Posted by SHANXTA
    No it is facts ftw for me,btw its not only ME this keeps happening too as there are others you know.But what is the point of posting these hands non-stop as then you get the 'brigade' coming in saying BAD BEAT YAWN' so its a bit difficult to win either way really shanx,xxx
  • edited December 2010
    Ive been playing just over a year now online and having read area 51 posts any normal person will ask themselves the question as to whether it is rigged or biased etc. I have 2 main reasons for dismissing these theories.

    Firstly I went on holiday with 6 lads and played live poker morning, noon and night (round of golf in between) and the bad beats were exactly the same as online. One of our chaps in particular hit the river card that many times it was unreal but as I was dealing I could not argue !! The person who won the most over the holiday was the one we had to teach how to play on the first day !! and trust me we were not letting him win our money so he will play again !!

    Secondly, I do not believe people such as Tikay or any of the other sky boys and girls would or could continually work and play on Sky Poker knowing something was not right with the system.
  • edited December 2010
    Gotta agree with you on the integrity of tikay etc,but there is nothing to say they even know is there? lets face it does anyone really trust 'online casinos'?
  • edited December 2010
    sigh

    not facts, selective memory, and ur right not just 4u, 4 loads of people.

    do u not even understand the difference bewteen a casino and poker? - all casino games have a house edge, the house need this for them 2 make a profit, plus in some games the edge can increase if it is not played optimumly. in poker, the house edge is the rake!! if me and you were to play 100 russian roulette game rite now, Sky woulnd't care who won, but they wud av made £20 in rake for doing nothin
  • edited December 2010
    i think if so called unlucky players put in the same amount of time trying to improve their game that they do moaning about fixing and bad beats you would see less clutter threads in the forums
  • edited December 2010
    In Response to Re: Downhill Spiral:
    1.  Online is tougher than live so it is gonna be harder to beat. 2.  Howvever online has an anonimity(sp?) factor to it, so some people don't mind gambling more than they would do live. 3. Sky uses mainly 6 max tables.  These are far more action and thus mean higher variance than on other sites which are mainly FR/live. 4.  You play far more hands online than live so variance is gonna take hold far quicker. 5.  Sky is a fairly tight knit community.  Usually when I'm playing a tournie I'll be at a table with 2/3 people who I have literally played thousands and thousands of hands with, and the other 2/3 I will have some small notes or will usually recognise and have a general idea of how they play.  If you are a total newbie to the site then no one will know you game at all. For example for the first time ever yesterday I played a load of 1.10/2.20 tournies (The only way I'm gonna get in the TSP freeroll is via tournie points so grind grind grind) and on one particular table I had notes on 4 players. 6.  Finally you may not be as good as you think you are.  Your first week/month was just a fluke and you are using these good old days to reinforce the idea that you are not a 'fish', so rather than accepting that you need to change your game you are blaming other people.
    Posted by scotty77
    Nice Post Scotty 
  • edited December 2010
    In Response to Re: Downhill Spiral:
    Ive been playing just over a year now online and having read area 51 posts any normal person will ask themselves the question as to whether it is rigged or biased etc. I have 2 main reasons for dismissing these theories. Firstly I went on holiday with 6 lads and played live poker morning, noon and night (round of golf in between) and the bad beats were exactly the same as online. One of our chaps in particular hit the river card that many times it was unreal but as I was dealing I could not argue !! The person who won the most over the holiday was the one we had to teach how to play on the first day !! and trust me we were not letting him win our money so he will play again !! Secondly, I do not believe people such as Tikay or any of the other sky boys and girls would or could continually work and play on Sky Poker knowing something was not right with the system.
    Posted by JPW33
    Glory be.

    Eventually, people will work this out, but it's taking a while.

    Poker is NOT a game against the House. Poker is a game between the players, & the House does not have the slightest interest in which player wins.
     
    Sky Poker is part of a very large & reputable organisation, who happen to be OCD about compliancy. The Company is doing very well - very well indeed. Traffic & revenues are all running at record Levels, & there is (are?, I'm unsure of the grammar there) miles of headroom to grow further. 

    Why on earth anyone would think Sky Poker need to mess with something that is clean, honest, & profitable, particularly on such flimsy evidence (think "Sample Size" please) is quite beyond my understanding. It also assumes that the Staff, & I, are stupid, & corrupt. We are neither.
     
  • edited December 2010
    In Response to Re: Downhill Spiral:
    In Response to Re: Downhill Spiral : I don't read comics, and playing only tournaments means there are going to be more downs than ups for me. This is not about losing or winning it's about what I (and others) see.  I am not surprised at your stance on this subject, but I am surprised at the cheap jibes. 
    Posted by elsadog
    Fair comment Alan - but you have been round the poker block a few times, & you know how many beans make five.

    You cannot seriously think Sky Poker is anything except clean, as are the very vast majority of Online Poker Sites. I just don't believe you could possibly think that.

    And it does irritate when time & time again it is suggested that Sky Poker staff are part of a conspiracy to defraud - because that is what you are suggesting.

    So I'm sorry for the cheap jibes, but you'd rather face cheap jibes than be described as dishonest, which is what you are suggesting, & which I find grossly offensive.

      
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