c/f an overpair @ NL4

The_Don90

to oppo kept you in for best responce. Just lemmie know via msn if you want me to remove and i will

Anyways, oppo is probably one of the better players at this level when he limp called pre i put him on a small pair. When he called flop i believed he could only have a set so just c/f the turn. Not sure this is correct tho.

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
bichasila	Small blind		£0.02	£0.02	£2.41
The_Don90	Big blind		£0.04	£0.06	£6.12
	Your hole cards	J J
abi1	Fold
Lambert180	Call		£0.04	£0.10	£4.15
bichasila	Call		£0.02	£0.12	£2.39
The_Don90	Raise		£0.28	£0.40	£5.84
Lambert180	Call		£0.28	£0.68	£3.87
bichasila	Fold
Flop
		8 6 4
The_Don90	Bet		£0.51	£1.19	£5.33
Lambert180	Call		£0.51	£1.70	£3.36
Turn
		3
The_Don90	Check
Lambert180	Bet		£0.68	£2.38	£2.68
The_Don90	Fold
Lambert180	Muck
Lambert180	Win		£1.57		£4.25
Lambert180	Return		£0.68	£0.13	£4.93

GREGHOGG

I dont like it, i would just stack off on the turn probably

rancid

b/f turn

could be betting a few worse hands/draws that you beat

Lambert180

I don't mind you leaving my name in at all. I'll post up what hand I had once I've seen a few more people's thoughts. But I will say that when I flat called pre I knew you would assume it was a small PP so it was a dream to represent a set if need be.

Lambert180

On  a side note, if I pretend it's not me in the hand and I'm you.... I definitely bet the turn in your position.

Lambert180

P.S.  Just looking through my HH and realised that was the biggest pot I won all night

IDONKCALLU

why are u calling the flop bet if you are folding to a bet on the turn when its a brick ?

Lambert180

He didn't call the flop bet, he made the flop bet lol.

IDONKCALLU

oh yeah but y check fold the turn then its a brick y not lead out again 

Lambert180

Because he made a c-bet, and when I called, he thought I was only calling with a hand that was beating 1pr

IDONKCALLU

hmmmmmmmmm i think don is ahead i think if u had qq kk or aa u reraise preflop so don must be ahead unless u hit ya set

Lambert180

well that's the whole point isn't it. Bearing in mind how tight my range is pre. The hands I flat pre here are probably 22-99 and AQ, AJ. When I've got AQ and AJ there's no way I flat his flop bet so you can rule them out instantly. So all the pocket pairs from 2s to 9s, so good chance I either have set or at worst open end straight draw.

IDONKCALLU

if i was playing i would bet turn and bet river i would think im deffo ahead here

Lambert180

Personally, I agree with you about betting the turn but obviously I can't comment about the river, it might come 5 or 7 which makes it an almost cert I've got a set or a straight.

But yeah if I was Don I bet the turn, assuming I don't know what villian (me lol) has.

IDONKCALLU

i played ya few days ago was only playing for fun u dnt play many hands tight aggro is say but u could easily have worse then jacks here u could of floate on the flop on a q a k just to take away on the turn 

Lambert180

In Response to Re: c/f an overpair @ NL4:

i played ya few days ago was only playing for fun u dnt play many hands tight aggro is say but u could easily have worse then jacks here u could of floate on the flop on a q a k just to take away on the turn 
Posted by IDONKCALLU

I promise you, I DO NOT float with AK/AQ at this level in situations like this. Plus, I know Don is a good player and knows how to play at this level (bet bet bet for value) so I know he's doing this with a decent hand

IDONKCALLU

I DO NOT lol next your be saying u dont bluff lol i won more money on bluffs then on hands its part of poker if u cant bluff u wont win at poker 

Lambert180

In Response to Re: c/f an overpair @ NL4:

I DO NOT lol next your be saying u dont bluff lol i won more money on bluffs then on hands its part of poker if u cant bluff u wont win at poker 
Posted by IDONKCALLU

If that's how you think it works at 4NL then you no idea. You adapt your game to the players and 99% of players at this level are calling stations, so how do you bluff calling stations? You don't you play solid ABC poker, you wait for strong hands and you bet for value because you know they'll call. Sure bluffing should be a part of your game (against players capable of folding) but in general you shouldn't be winning more from bluffs than from actual value hands.

This IS the way to beat 4NL - Fact!

I won't go on about it anymore because it's been discussed a million times on the forum but yes I will happily admit that I do not bluff at 4NL.

Disclaimer: This may not be true against the Don (sorry Don lol)

IDONKCALLU

i know what ya mean i said this before u cant bluff at 4nl because people cant fold a hand where as 10nl i like because people respect your raise and fold and i bluff alot more 4nl is not for me because i bluff alot and play loose aggro 

Lambert180

A very wise man said to me recently about this level (4NL)... we make our money from people calling our bets, not by calling bets

IDONKCALLU

rancid

hand is very simple, don't c/f overpairs

Lambert180

So here it is then Don...

Unlucky mate but I agree with everyone else, there's no way you should have check folded the turn, but I knew you'd give me more respect than I deserve lol... this was 100% player dependent. I knew you would put me on a small PP with the flat pre so with that flop, I played it how you'd expect me to play a set, then when you checked the turn I knew it was game over for you.

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
bichasila	Small blind		£0.02	£0.02	£2.41
The_Don90	Big blind		£0.04	£0.06	£6.12
	Your hole cards	7 7
abi1	Fold
Lambert180	Call		£0.04	£0.10	£4.15
bichasila	Call		£0.02	£0.12	£2.39
The_Don90	Raise		£0.28	£0.40	£5.84
Lambert180	Call		£0.28	£0.68	£3.87
bichasila	Fold
Flop
		8 6 4
The_Don90	Bet		£0.51	£1.19	£5.33
Lambert180	Call		£0.51	£1.70	£3.36
Turn
		3
The_Don90	Check
Lambert180	Bet		£0.68	£2.38	£2.68
The_Don90	Fold
Lambert180	Muck
Lambert180	Win		£1.57		£4.25
Lambert180	Return		£0.68	£0.13	£4.93

MP33

If i,m Don I think i may be bt as well - player dependant

Also if i,m Lambert I think i,m behind after reading your threads (getting to know ur game ), which he does , but  knows you know this and that he wouldn,t try and bluff esp  after your pre -raise and lead out -

EDIT _ does that even make sense

IDONKCALLU

so i was right then i think don played it bad tbh with ya i would be happy to empty the clip here if u are up against a set then so be it thats poker nice hand move on next 1 but its a low flop u have jj lambert didnt preflop your raise so surely jj is ahead on this flop like i said id be happy to empty the clip here 

Lambert180

the fact it's a low flop is exactly why he thought he was behind if it came 26T then he probably feels alot happier about it, but that flop hits alot of the small PPs that he knows I will flat call pre (as I did lol)

The_Don90

tbh theres 3 hands i put in Lambert range i beat.

99/77/22. The rest all beat me. Therefore a c/f was the correct play imo. If im behind to most of his range then why waste money to win on the occassions he has one of these 3 hands. I played with my read. Ok on this occassion it was wrong. tbh i nearly c/c the turn to assess the river but i felt that would then put my in a harder spot if it came something like a blank 10.

More of Lamberts range beats me than i beat. Tbh i'm happy with my fold and i may have got it wrong on this occassion (ive spoke to the rng and the river was a 5 so correct fold) but long term im saving myself burning money.  

B4TheFlop

position is the key to this hand imo

don if you had the button and lambert was the first to act ,i think it plays out totally different

im all for stacking off here with the jj after the flop and if he has a set so be it ,i cant check fold the turn no matter what here .

i would have led the turn and then put the quwstion back to him

but tbh i cant see how i dont stack off here


i guess everyone is different, i have seen your reasons and i respect the reason for the fold

DOHHHHHHH

In Response to Re: c/f an overpair @ NL4:

tbh theres 3 hands i put in Lambert range i beat. 99/77/22. The rest all beat me. Therefore a c/f was the correct play imo. If im behind to most of his range then why waste money to win on the occassions he has one of these 3 hands. I played with my read. Ok on this occassion it was wrong. tbh i nearly c/c the turn to assess the river but i felt that would then put my in a harder spot if it came something like a blank 10. More of Lamberts range beats me than i beat. Tbh i'm happy with my fold and i may have got it wrong on this occassion (ive spoke to the rng and the river was a 5 so correct fold) but long term im saving myself burning money.  
Posted by The_Don90

Does he limp 9s there?

Does he float flop/lead turn with 22?

I think you can eliminate 99 & 22 also, which leaves 1 hand (according to your reads)

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V impressive hand imo from both points of view. 

Problem Lambert has here is he needs to know Don can fold the type of hand that he actually had. 

I know more than anyone Don is a abit of a calling station, and loves to check/call..........

........but Lambert has used a combination of his own image, Dons perception of his range & the board textrue to represent a huge hand and got it through!!!

Obv wouldn't advise this kinda thing to newbies @ nl4, but it's pretty impressive stuff between 2 regs imo.

Also like the size of Lamberts turn bet, as it looks like he's setting up a river pot sized shove. Looks really strong!

Would have been very interesting if Don had c/c turn, and checked a river blank over to Lambert, to see if he would fire the 2nd bullett. 

I'd like to think he would (he should) If he believes strongly enough in his read on Don, which he must have done to have made the turn play in the first place.

-------------------------------

There's no doubt that if you can start using reads as well as this @ nl4 you can increase your winrate per table......

I know Lamb isn't able to play tonnes of tables atm so thinking deeper into hands, getting reads and outplaying opponents is 1 way to make up for it! 

(still prefer the high volume/loads of tables, strategy where possible though)

------------------------

early morning essays ftw, my dog can gtfo barking @ 6am     :@:@:

wp both.

rancid

Such a long thread )

 

It was good play by Lambert, but at the same time Don’s read should have been that he knows Lambert is more than capable of firing there with a hand he beats.

 

So for me it’s b/f or at worst c/c

 

c/f imo is just handing the pot over and is weak play

Just saying oppo must have it is incorrect, there is a bigger range here that he fires turn with but probably gives up on river.

 

Btw – easier if you just don’t play each other )

The_Don90

Can i just say Lambert joined my table it was very soft.

JJ Yes i ruled out 22/33/99 on the flop so i actually only beat 77 and 55 (missed that before) im losing to 44/66/88

im just going to stove jacks v that range on this turn

actually shocked to discover i have 48% equity against this range here.

again im beating 2/5 hands tho and im thin to the other 3,

as a friend said to me once. If you never fold the best hand, your calling too much