c/f an overpair @ NL4

rancid

In Response to Re: c/f an overpair @ NL4:

as a friend said to me once. If you never fold the best hand, your calling too much
Posted by The_Don90

I like that one

How about this one:

if your not b/f enough then you c/f too much )

are you not factoring in connecting hands that would bet that turn, would oppo flat pre with them Maybe !!

Dudeskin8

Why has Lamby open limped the button with 77?

The_Don90

In Response to Re: c/f an overpair @ NL4:

In Response to Re: c/f an overpair @ NL4 : I like that one How about this one: if your not b/f enough then you c/f too much ) are you not factoring in connecting hands that would bet that turn, would oppo flat pre with them Maybe !!
Posted by rancid

How often do you see me check folding this spot? My bet is not very often

rancid

Well this is my point; you have leveled yourself into a fold

Convinced yourself oppo must have a set without playing any poker on turn

I would have much preferred a c/c on turn than a c/f, at least the river would have been interesting– would he fire again as a bluff – probably not!

 

As Dudeskin has pointed out, oppo flatted the button – don’t think anyone has actually noticed this yet

 

The way the hand plays out you have to bet turn as normal

If there is a strong indication that you’re beat here, then you can fold  – it would seem like you have just given up

On this basis if you play like this versus the same level of oppo then you’re not playing optimally

Maybe I am being harsh, but I don’t think I am that wrong either

 

Also maybe Lambert thought he actually had the best hand and was merely v/b and not semi bluffing !

The_Don90

In Response to Re: c/f an overpair @ NL4:

Well this is my point; you have leveled yourself into a fold Convinced yourself oppo must have a set without playing any poker on turn I would have much preferred a c/c on turn than a c/f, at least the river would have been interesting– would he fire again as a bluff – probably not!   As Dudeskin has pointed out, oppo flatted the button – don’t think anyone has actually noticed this yet   The way the hand plays out you have to bet turn as normal If there is a strong indication that you’re beat here, then you can fold  – it would seem like you have just given up On this basis if you play like this versus the same level of oppo then you’re not playing optimally Maybe I am being harsh, but I don’t think I am that wrong either   Also maybe Lambert thought he actually had the best hand and was merely v/b and not semi bluffing !
Posted by rancid

i think lambert kknow my range for this bet pre is probably TT+ and Ak so that makes it great for him to set mine with his 77. He can flat the flop i may have AK, at worst he also has a gutshot.

Tbh, ive said it before and ill say it again. If i bet again we have pot size stacks. I have too big a hand to fold therefoe if he re-raises.

Simple as that,

rancid

The key line “if he raises”

 

Turn pot is 1.70

You have 5.33

Lam has 3.36

 

What the problem with b/f   .95 – 1.20

You had a big hand on the flop –so you bet – what has changed on the turn ?

How can we have a hand that is too big to fold to a raise on the turn ?

You have a bigger enough hand to bet flop, so bet turn ?

Am I missing something here or is thee something fundamentally wrong with what I am saying ?

 If we play this way we should check flop, because oppo may have a set :S

debdobs_67

I know for sure i would of done a 'pot size' bet on the turn (defo not checkin) and am more than prepared to get it in.

EDIT also i think lamby played it vv well indeed by using his knowledge of don90 against him.This imho is the probs faced when players post waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too many hands for others to view.

kocklaw

A nice interesting hand and a very discipplined lay down by The Don.

I think i may call the turn here if i was the Don see if you slow down on the river/ maybe even get to showdown cheaply. A over card or 5 - 7 may also be a scare cards for you.

9's, 10's or even 97s would be hard to fire again if it was called on the turn.

regards

K

The_Don90

In Response to Re: c/f an overpair @ NL4:

The key line “if he raises”   Turn pot is 1.70 You have 5.33 Lam has 3.36   What the problem with b/f    .95 – 1.20 You had a big hand on the flop –so you bet – what has changed on the turn ? How can we have a hand that is too big to fold to a raise on the turn ? You have a bigger enough hand to bet flop, so bet turn ? Am I missing something here or is thee something fundamentally wrong with what I am saying ?   If we play this way we should check flop, because oppo may have a set :S
Posted by rancid

when we put our oppo on a range. for example here i have 22-88 or 22-99 probably more likley 22-88.

When we bet the flop we can bet for value v most of that range however when lambert calls tat reduces that range to 44-88. Which now we have much less equity against. Because theirs less hands in his range that we beat.

rancid

Think we enough equity to bet turn v oppo range, I think his range is wider than just 22-99 flop and then 44-88 on turn

The flat on the button just widens oppo's range imo

Even if we factor in connecting hands I am not sure if this increases our equity or decreases ?

Like I said in my first post, lambert can bet certain hands on the turn (draws/prs) that we beat, because he has enough pot equity + fold equity.

stove it and work out the ev, I have not got the time right now but may do it later )

The_Don90

In Response to Re: c/f an overpair @ NL4:

Think we enough equity to bet turn v oppo range, I think his range is wider than just 22-99 flop and then 44-88 on turn The flat on the button just widens oppo's range imo Even if we factor in connecting hands I am not sure if this increases our equity or decreases ? Like I said in my first post, lambert can bet certain hands on the turn (draws/prs) that we beat, because he has enough pot equity + fold equity. stove it and work out the ev, I have not got the time right now but may do it later )
Posted by rancid

give me your range. v the range i gave him it said 48% which i though was a little high tbf

YOUNG_GUN

I dont like check folding turn, you should be bettin the turn imo i can understand if u put him on potentially a set but its far to easy for Lamby to win this pot

WP Lamby but donaldo not a fan of this one but can understand why u done it so its not that bad

IDONKCALLU

gonna be harsh but honest how can you go up the levels if you are folding these hands on a low flop if hes got a set hes got a set well played nice hand on a higher level 5/10 or 2.50/5 u would never see sparce lay down this hand dont matter what the opponent is just think its a bet every street 

YOUNG_GUN

lol u sparces rent boy?

He can lay it down if he thinks hes beat! Lamby's range is quite narrow here so can fold although i wouldnt personally especially not on turn

rancid

79,87 are probably the most realistic

there are other but you can rule these out

109,67,35  )

IDONKCALLU

thats abit offensice youngun this what i mean by no manners on here to much ego no 1 likes the truth and when u tell them they come up with rude remarks 

The_Don90

In Response to Re: c/f an overpair @ NL4:

gonna be harsh but honest how can you go up the levels if you are folding these hands on a low flop if hes got a set hes got a set well played nice hand on a higher level 5/10 or 2.50/5 u would never see sparce lay down this hand dont matter what the opponent is just think its a bet every street 
Posted by IDONKCALLU

LOL LOL LOL

lJAMESl folded kings pre a few months back. Good players lose the min when their beat and win the most when their ahead. Thats common knowledge. Sparce i dont know that well so i cant comment on him but most of the high stake guys seem to rate him. However i'd love for you to say lJAMESl isnt a good player. Probably in the top 5 players on sky imo.

IDONKCALLU

ljamesl is a great player and gone on to do better things in poker and i wish him the best of luck i have folded kings once in my life only because it was obvious the guy had aces might aswell have had it face up blinds was 10p/20p i raise 60p utg with kings fold fold fold fold small blind calls then big blind goes 1.80 so then i 4 bet to £4.20 then small blind folds and then big blind shoved all in smelt of aces so bad so let go of kings and he did have aces it can be done it depends on the action on the table 

The_Don90

In Response to Re: c/f an overpair @ NL4:

ljamesl is a great player and gone on to do better things in poker and i wish him the best of luck i have folded kings once in my life only because it was obvious the guy had aces might aswell have had it face up blinds was 10p/20p i raise 60p utg with kings fold fold fold fold small blind calls then big blind goes 1.80 so then i 4 bet to £4.20 then small blind folds and then big blind shoved all in smelt of aces so bad so let go of kings and he did have aces it can be done it depends on the action on the table 
Posted by IDONKCALLU

ok so your now saying your folding kings without a board, but your stacking off with jacks on a low board. little bit contradictary isnt it?

Fwiw im not saying im a good player or im right or i wouldnt have posted this hand. My point is simple. I played the hand based on a range of things my oppo has. Lambert has posted his hand, and it was within the range i had. Because it was one of the few hands i beat in the range i put him on does that make it a bad fold?

debdobs_67

Dunno how this thread has now somehow included players way into a meta game with eachother but DON90 posts way too many hands as do others i can name which can only conspire against these players.

YOUNG_GUN

In Response to Re: c/f an overpair @ NL4:

thats abit offensice youngun this what i mean by no manners on here to much ego no 1 likes the truth and when u tell them they come up with rude remarks 
Posted by IDONKCALLU

lol u tell the truth thats ur opinion what  say it doesnt mean its the truth, u talking about ego i think u obviously have one havng to post so much nonsense all the time

what happened to ur leaving?

The_Don90

In Response to Re: c/f an overpair @ NL4:

Dunno how this thread has now somehow included players way into a meta game with eachother but DON90 posts way too many hands as do others i can name which can only conspire against these players.
Posted by debdobs_67

dw debs. they days of me posting lots of hands are over. the diary is no longer in use. and ive already started to change my game. Clearly a few weeks back im getting all my chips in.

DOHHHHHHH

luv the thread .

Idonkcallu makes an observation about the high rollers not c/folding these boards.....

U correctly (imo) spot flaws in the compariosn, but no1 has given any kinda reason why.

Stop turning perfectly good clinic threads into bickering wars, leave that to me amybr and beaneh.

--------------------------------

You're right IDONKCALLU.....sparce and james and co would never c/f Jacks on this board in their regular games, against their regular opponents, but the key thing that made Don make the pass is the opponent he is up against.

If sparce was playing nl4 against Lambert, he might well slow down on this turn.

Even Sparce can't change the hand his opponent is holding, all he can do is play the best he can against the range he puts Lambert on, and if he's beat, he's beat.

Sparce & co didn't beat nl4 by playing how you see them play @ nl500.......

"Different strategies, different needs" - JJ Brent!

grantorino

Dont know why everyone thinks this hand is so great

Why does Lambert limp his btn?

Why does don put him solely on pps?

Why would lambert fold a pair on the flop?

Don makes a bad read and c/f turn and thats ok?

Lambert betting turn is questionable at best. Dont think he called flop to bluff him off an overpair on the turn. Dont hate it but its a protection bet where I dont think there is really need for one

Dont mean this as overly critical, but sounds to me everybody is levelling themselves about this hand

rancid

Do you c/f here ?

 

On a wider scale if Don can find folds in these situations then all is good, but I think it would benefit him to b/f and not c/f

 

What u fink !!

GREGHOGG

In Response to Re: c/f an overpair @ NL4:

Do you c/f here ?   On a wider scale if Don can find folds in these situations then all is good, but I think it would benefit him to b/f and not c/f   What u fink !!
Posted by rancid

i crai, or b/c

i refuse to fold jj on this board at 4nl, nit reg or no nit reg, prob on my own here...

rancid

In Response to Re: c/f an overpair @ NL4:

Dont mean this as overly critical, but sounds to me everybody is levelling themselves about this hand
Posted by grantorino

+1

pod1

im with you on this one gregg. (i can here the shotguns loading now, duck!!!)

The_Don90

In Response to Re: c/f an overpair @ NL4:

Dont know why everyone thinks this hand is so great Why does Lambert limp his btn? Why does don put him solely on pps? Why would lambert fold a pair on the flop? Don makes a bad read and c/f turn and thats ok? Lambert betting turn is questionable at best. Dont think he called flop to bluff him off an overpair on the turn. Dont hate it but its a protection bet where I dont think there is really need for one Dont mean this as overly critical, but sounds to me everybody is levelling themselves about this hand
Posted by grantorino

GT can you go into explaining this post please. im not following

grantorino

In Response to Re: c/f an overpair @ NL4:

In Response to Re: c/f an overpair @ NL4 : GT can you go into explaining this post please. im not following
Posted by The_Don90

What are you not following?
From your end, why is lambert btn limping range 22-99?
Why does he only call the flop with a set? If so, why bet?
 Why is the 3 a bad turn card? Why is c/f turn best? Do you c/f 33/44 on turn if his range is a flopped set?