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Saying "Raise 800" is right, but it can be confusing, as that is the RAISE size, not the BET size..
The answer is simple, but think laterally. Turn the problem on it's head by announcing your intention, verbally, in one of two ways.
Announce to the Dealer, nice & clearly (don't worry about other Players, tell the Dealer),
"I MAKE IT 800 TO PLAY".
Or.....
"I Raise it TO.....". The word "to" being key.
I prefer "I make it x to play". "X" is the TOTAL amount you plan to make it.
Confusion always arises when someone says "I raise 800", when they might mean "I raise TO 800" or "I Raise BY 800"..
just reading through this thread and noticed a few points that were raised (apologies this reply is slightly late)
1. making this thread (ask tikay) a sticky
if tikay does actually want to make this a sticky (as i know he doesn't always believe in their effectiveness) then i am 100% behind that. this thread is an extremely useful tool for new and existing players alike and tikay does a great job in answering everyone's questions. anything that is beneficial to the community is great with me.
2. adding new discussion groups/ boards
this is really easy to do and certainly a possibility. i am open to suggestions on this so if any of you have any ideas just post on this thread or start a new one with your suggestions
3. the amount of threads displayed on each page of the forum board
the reason we only have a limited amount of threads on each page of the forum is due to page load restrictions placed on us by the IT team here at sky. when we first designed and built the forum we had more but quickly discovered that is was/ could affect your page loading time.
As an initial suggestions under the strategy section, could we have child boards for Cash, SNG's and MTT's, so that anything specific to those games could be posted there.
Also a hand analysis child board too would be useful
thanks
Aski
Tikay i need to print hand history from a hand i have just played on cash and need to know how i transfer it so i can post it in the strateg forum cos i dont think i played it wrong but want to check
thanks for these, i'm going to start a new thread asking for suggestions so make sure you post these there as well.
thanks,
Rich
What area of the hand are you highlighting when you "cut" the hand history?
I tend to start with the column headings (i.e. "Player" in the top left) and highlight all the way down to the bottom right of the scrollable area. That seems to work for me.
I work in Clerkenwell Road, London and within chip tossing distance of the old 'Gutshot' club which is sadly no longer there.
Could you give a brief history of it and did any famous pro's play there?
I know you dont like stickies Tikay but this is one thread I think deserves one as it always "wakes up" once it is on the front page.
Really, it's your Call & I'll go with the flow. I have views on the effectiveness of stickies, but they are based on how many views they get, as on this Forum, unlike most, we can't see how many people view threads.
I think the thread is useful, as a focal point for questiions, but I'm conscious that to sticky it would reduce the front page, in effect, by a "line", which is a bad thing overall.
Sadly, when if falls off the front page I forget to pick up on the questions, & it becomes Catch-22. I must try harder!
Really, it's up to you Rich, & those who know me wil know I'd never ask for it to be stickied, as it seems a little pretentious so to do.
I'm all behind with the thread, sorry. We had a busy day yesterday with the new Show, & I'm offline from mid-afternoon, & most of tomorrow.
So, I'll spend an hour now & try to get through a few replies.
A lot of questions on here about the Gutshot (now no longer present "as such"), & so I'll spend a bit of time on it, & I hope that will sweep up a few of the unanswered questions about it.
Famous pros that played there?
Lots, but they were not famous at the time!
Why so many? Because there is a chronic shortage of good, or even any, poker Venues in London, due to.....
a) Ridiculously imposed Licensing Laws, which make it well-nigh impossible to obtain a full licence. More on which later.
b) Running a poker-only venue is not very commercial - it's almost impossible to run a poker-only venue profitably. Not one stand-alone poker venue exists with a full licence, the only way for them to be profitable is to have House Games. (Roulette, Blackjack). The GC (Gaming Commission) has shown itself to be wholly impotent & incompetent in controlling unlicensed Poker Venues - there are hundreds of them - but when it comes to House Games, they are, thankfully, extremely strict. I hope someone asks me about DTD's Club, by the way - now that IS a story.
Who played there? Roland de Wolfe & James Akenhead are not bad for starters, are they?! Nik Persuad, too, he's now Neil Channings partner in Black Belt & a mean player. Most of the "Live" Pros played there from time to time - I recall one Final I made there which included Willie Tann, James Dempsey, Paul Parker, one of the Hendon Mob Boatman Brothers (I forget whicjh one), plus there were regulars like Joe Grech, Dave Colclough, Ian Woodley, Warren Wooldridge, Jerome Bradpiece, too many to mention really.
Jen Mason used to be a Dealer there, too. Please God, someone ask me a question about Jen......
There was an odious regular by the name of Aide, too. Good player, or "ok-ish", but the rudest & most arrogant individual I've ever met at a poker table. Eventually, he got Banned, way too late though, because many players stopped going there because of his intolerable antics. He switched to The Western in due course, but I think he got hit with the ban-stick there, too.
More.....
Go on then what about Jen Mason?
col
The TD was a guy called Granite John - who I liked very much - & the Club was run by Derek Kelly & Barry "The Bully" Martin, he of occasional PNL appearances.
Both of them, but Derek in particular, were very kind to me, be in no doubt. Derek actually introduced me to the guys who own & run Equal Chance, another, & much better, poker Club, in Walthamstow, E.17. That one is still open.
I never once paid for a drink or a meal at Gutshot - Derek always "comped me", which was extremely kind of him. At the time, I was writing lot of articles for Poker Mags (Poker Europa, Cardplayer etc) & Websites, (Hendon Mob & blonde), so his generosity was frequently reciprocated by "favourable reviews". But I always spoke as I found, & later, as "things" developed, I became a little more circumspect as to what I said about Gutshot.
Derek headed a massive legal campaign for The Gutshot Cluib to get a licence, or at least operate legally, but eventually, he lost the battle in what was a very high-profile court case, & Gutshot was declared officially "illegal". The Club remained open for a goodly while, Derek (who I emphasise, I liked a lot, & who was very kind to me) seemingly severed connections with Gutshot (he runs a club in Dublin now) but eventualy it closed down suddenly.
Lo & behold, the very next day, a new Club opened just up the road, called "The International", staffed by, in the main, the same Dealers & Staff.....It appears to operate untroubled by legal problems, like almost all unlicensed poker venues, which is a bit peculiar if you think about it. Either change the law to make them street legal, or impose the law, I really don't mind which, but it has to be one or the other!
A weird sidebar here. After Derek introduced me to the owners of Equal Chance - we all had dinner at Gutshot one night - I forgot all about them. They were Greek, & looked a bit "wide", or "sharp", but extremely personable & I later became, & still am, very good friends with them, & I still to this day to some off-Table business with them. But they come across as, well, not guys you'd wanna to get the wrong side of.....Sharp-suited, quick-witted, very bright.
A year or two later, I was playing a little comp in Planet Hollywood in Vegas, with Compo actually, & there was this girl sat opposite me. She was about 22, & beautifully constructed, so much so that it was hard to concentrate on my game, all I could see were pairs. We struck up convo - as you do - & we realised we were both based in the UK, & the convo continued. She said her family ran a poker club in the UK, da de da, & now I'm getting a little warm under the coller, she was so warm & friendly, & it's possible I was by now being a little forward in my convo with this beautiful young girl. "What Club?" I asked. "Why not ask my Dad - he's sat next to you" she said. And so he was - the guy I'd met in Gutshot a few years earlier, sat right next to me while I had been busy ogling his daughter. Oops,......
I still go to Equal Chance when time permits, despite my aversion to not-quite-street-legal Poker venues, & we are all good friends now. They make proper cups - mugs - of wonderful tea, & call everyone by their first name, & the staff are all over you. It's a lovely place, truly.
But I digress - back to Gutshot.....
More.....
An oddity of the legal battle over Gutshot was that both the Prosecution AND Defence asked me to appear as a witness! Which was kind of awkward.
The legal battle centred upon whether poker was primarily a game of chance, or a game of skill. It is, of course, a luck-based game in which superior skillls can give you a small edge.
I was acutely embarrased by the request to act for both parties. I had several commercial interests in poker at the time, then & now really, so it was a dilemma. And I had mixed feelings about the whole thing. I liked Derek a lot, Barry Martin was, at the time, a good pal. And I think things should be legal. So, a big dilemma.
The crucial thing was APAT, of which I'd just agreed to become Chairman, & the APAT vision is extremely important to me. We HAVE to straighten (Live) poker up, get it structured properly, & give smaller Players a better deal. (and we do, trust me, APAT gives better value than ANY poker organisation on earth, & all for free).
So I swerved both requests, & sat on the fence. I had no choice, really.
The whole case was messy, too. One of the Corporate Casino Chains had sent a "spy" into the Gutshot Camp to gather evidence, as was their right, but it left a sour taste for many, & it was all a bit fractious & confrontational for a while. And I'm not happy with aggro these days, peace brother & all that is more my line.
Gutshot still have a poker Forum, but it's not my style at all. It used to be - perhaps still is - unmoderated, a place where "anything goes" & abuse is not only tolerated, it's encouraged, & they have resident trolls. Ugh, but hey, each to their own, & there are several very popular Forums who operate similar policies. It's good that we can choose the style of Forum we like, it's important to add, & I have no issue with confrontational Forums. I just don't wanna be part of them, or them to be part of us. There's room for us all. Seperately.
More....
The Club itself.
In case anyone thinks otherwise, as I'm being as brutally honest - but as even-handed - as I can, I'd not have missed it for the world - it's part of our Live Poker heritage, You HAD to to go there to feel the atmo, the buzz, & there never has, or wll be, anything quite like it, before, or since. God bless all who sailed in her, warts & all.
It was actually a converted shop, & far, far, smaller than anyone would imagine.
There was no dedicated parking area, so you had to park on Clerkenwell Road & take your chance with the Wardens, what a nightmare that was.
It was run as individual Profit Centres - Bar/Restaurant, Internet Cafe, Live Club, & Online Room. I imagine all of them except the Live Poker ran at a nice little Profit. Businesses HAVE to run at a profit, nothing wrong with that.
Upstairs they had the Bar & Restaurant - about 10 Tables, but the food was unbelievably good - no Poker Venue ever did better food in those days, though now, both Equal Chance & DTD do excellent food. Mainstream Corporate Casinos all suck at provision of even half-decent food.
In a little side-room, & eventually over-spilling into the main upstairs area, they had an Internet Cafe - what a GREAT business model that was! Maybe, I can't recall, but about 20 Terminals, & you purchased Vouchers, 50p per hour or whatever, & you could play online Poker - ONLY on their own room, naturally - so that was a right little money-spinner. Well done them - I love to see good business models. Most nights there was not a single terminal empty, there'd be a waiting list to get one. Extraordinary! Geezers would rather go & sit in a Room at Gutshot & play Online than sit at home alone or with a naggy missus. There's be this chorus of bad beat tales from every user, it was hilarious to sit & listen to everyone moaning & groaning! DTD have the same Business Model, by the way, they have 20+ Online Terminals - but DTD do not charge for their use, & you can surf the net freely there, but, of course, only play on the DTD Room.
There were usually 5 or 6 Poker Tables Upstairs, very cramped for room, but excellent Tables.
Downstairs was the Cash-Desk, a "side-room" with one Table - used for Finals - & the Main Poker Room.
The Main Poker room had room for 4 Tables in comfort - but there were 8 or 9, ugh, & it was incredibly cramped & claustrophobic. If you busted out, you'dd be stuck sometimes until the next break, there was no room to get out. God knows what would happen in the event of a fire. (And I have deep experience of Fire Regs, so I'm speaking with some knowledge).
And it stunk. Poker players don't wash as often as we might like, & the stench of BO was all-pervading. And the heat was overpowering, always always always. They eventually got an aircon unit, but it never worked properly, it was simply overwhelmed - the room was holding 80 or 100 players, too many for a lone Air-Con Unit to cope with.
It had a little fish-pond, too (!), which became (smoking was legal inside in those days) an oversize ashtray. How did those poor fish cope? The fish fish I mean, not the players.....
There was always a few lively cash Games there, especially during the Fessies.
I was in a nice Cash-Game one night, which included Willie Tann, Joe Grech & Thewy. I was £1,800 up, & I was rooming with Thewy, & we decided to leave. One more orbit says Thewy.....
I was messing with Thewy, & raised him with 5-2, for the craic, he re-Raised me with poo, & I took a flop. (There was £200 in Pre-Flop)
Q-2-2. Gotcha! A bunch of mates were behind me, I flicked up my cards for them to see - lets have some fun at Thewy's expense. I check-called the Flop & turn - I'm LOVING it - but instead of shoving on the end, I just check-called. The plan was it meant he was forced to show his hand, then I could turn over my 5-2 proudly, "in yer face sunny jim" sorta thing. He bet on the end - about £500 I think, leaving me £400 still behind to Re-Raise. I desperately wanted to shove the rest in, but was determined to force him to show, so I just Called. Now we can have some fun, eh?
It was him to show first, & I was full of myself, could not wait to see what garbage he had - the whole idea was that the Rail - 15 or 20 guys - would all share the fun I was about to have.
"What YOU got?" he says. I could not resist, & flicked over one card - the deuce, which had tripped. I still remember the next thing to this day - he flicked over a deuce, too! Noooooooooo! Well, my 5 kicker had to be dead, & it was. He had 2-Q, & had flopped the house......
I still get ribbed by lots of guys about that to this day. And Thewy? He's still the greatest guy in poker, bar none. In fact I'm taking a rare day off tomorrow to go & have dinner with him at Thew Towers, with his wife, Amanda, & the kids, Reuben, Hal, & Barny. Yes, I know - legend he may well be, but when it comes to naming kids.....
I shoulda saved all this for my Blog, but too late now, & I'm nearly done I think, so may as well carry on.
More....
Out of time, as per usual.
Keep the questions coming, & I'll respnd soonest, maybe later tonight, & I'll finish the Gutshot questions, too.
But for now, Luton awaits, & their £100 Freezeout jobbie.
Maybe see some of you there.
Good luck at the Tables tonight, wherever you play.
Good luck at Luton