ive been made aware of this thread by someone on twitter and have been asked to post some thoughts. im gonna re read the whole thread coz i cant believe its got this long so i dont want to say too much just now. all i will say just now is, i am a massive winner at this level over a long period so i guess i know a thing or 2 in how to beat it. and what dohhhhh said above i finished march around £750 up just at nl4 Posted by TINTIN
Over what period was the £750 made?
No doubting you, i see you winning constantly on the tables, just curious as i start to build my own roll up at this level.
from looking at the hands don posted, most of it isnt unusual. there is a couple played horribly but others have already mentioned about them so no point going over it again.
i do think don tries to over analyze things too much for this level. sometimes you just gotta take the beat n move on to the nxt hand.
In Response to Re: why i cant beat nl4. Sigh. some BBY but want advice. sick of losing at this level. : Over what period was the £750 made? No doubting you, i see you winning constantly on the tables, just curious as i start to build my own roll up at this level. Posted by Pipunch
In Response to Re: why i cant beat nl4. Sigh. some BBY but want advice. sick of losing at this level. : Wow. That is phenomenal. I know you win cause every game i see you in you're sat there with £6+ but i didn't think it was that much! Posted by Pipunch
i was running good as well, you take heaters when you get them, that was an exceptional month i will admit it. a usual month is normally between £200-£300 for the grind. it sounds a lot but so is the amount of hands i play
I literally don't have any idea what more can be said on this topic that hasn't been said again and again for 12+ months.
Bet big hands, fold small ones, don't semi-bluff draws, just check/call (if you have the odds), make your hand, pile in the money. Sometimes you get bad beated, put note on player saying 'idiot called my shove with a gutshot', then rinse and repeat.
I literally don't have any idea what more can be said on this topic that hasn't been said again and again for 12+ months. Bet big hands, fold small ones, don't semi-bluff draws, just check/call (if you have the odds), make your hand, pile in the money. Sometimes you get bad beated, put note on player saying 'idiot called my shove with a gutshot', then rinse and repeat. Posted by Lambert180
In Response to Re: why i cant beat nl4. Sigh. some BBY but want advice. sick of losing at this level. : i was running good as well, you take heaters when you get them, that was an exceptional month i will admit it. a usual month is normally between £200-£300 for the grind. it sounds a lot but so is the amount of hands i play Posted by TINTIN
Aside from all this moaning abuot 4NL being unbeatable... I'd say 95%+ of us know that's nonsense but I must say TinTin, that is a mighty fine month's worth of profit from 4NL!!
How many tables do you play and how many hours dya do a day/week/month if you don't mind me asking?
Also, I always said that it was virtually impossible to get anything meaningful from C4P via 4NL but if you've played 300k in 2012 alone, you must have earned a few points along the way... what's an average number of poker points for you at 4NL in a month?
Ok hope not to bore you. I had a session before. I had £13 in account and spoke to dohhh, i said id short multitable giving me some leeway. He suggested just play 3 tables with the max. i reluctantly accepted on the basis that he'd watch via team viewer. this way we could discuss as we go.
Ill post some hands, as i still finnished down, although i think these are all pretty standard but would still like some discussion.
Hand 1) Not actually happy with my play pre but i knew one oppo would likley pay me if i hit. Although still not happy with it.
Player
Action
Cards
Amount
Pot
Balance
Brode
Small blind
£0.02
£0.02
£3.28
The_Don90
Big blind
£0.04
£0.06
£3.07
Your hole cards
10
Q
daviddev17
Fold
lowlife
Fold
MARYBOBBIN
Raise
£0.12
£0.18
£1.83
Brode
Call
£0.10
£0.28
£3.18
The_Don90
Call
£0.08
£0.36
£2.99
Flop
K
10
2
Brode
Bet
£0.04
£0.40
£3.14
The_Don90
Call
£0.04
£0.44
£2.95
MARYBOBBIN
Call
£0.04
£0.48
£1.79
Turn
Q
Brode
Bet
£0.04
£0.52
£3.10
The_Don90
Raise
£0.46
£0.98
£2.49
MARYBOBBIN
Fold
Brode
Call
£0.42
£1.40
£2.68
River
4
Brode
Check
The_Don90
Bet
£1.05
£2.45
£1.44
Brode
Call
£1.05
£3.50
£1.63
The_Don90
Show
10
Q
Brode
Muck
10
J
The_Don90
Win
Two Pairs, Queens and 10s
£3.23
£4.67
hand 2) Id been having a pretty bad session to be fair. When i seen this hand decided just to go with it so i wasnt sitting around with 25BB any more. There was no reload back.
Player
Action
Cards
Amount
Pot
Balance
padzmac
Small blind
£0.02
£0.02
£3.24
jbpoker
Big blind
£0.04
£0.06
£2.80
Your hole cards
7
7
The_Don90
Raise
£0.20
£0.26
£0.92
clubhammer
Fold
padzmac
Fold
jbpoker
All-in
£2.80
£3.06
£0.00
The_Don90
All-in
£0.92
£3.98
£0.00
jbpoker
Unmatched bet
£1.72
£2.26
£1.72
jbpoker
Show
K
10
The_Don90
Show
7
7
Flop
5
5
4
Turn
Q
River
9
The_Don90
Win
Two Pairs, 7s and 5s
£2.09
£2.09
Hand 3) Early in the session and a common problem. This was my third biggest hand profitwise the other 2 are above. Flop i checked back as i dont think opponents are hitting that flop much, plus other than gutshots its pretty safe. The turn my bet sizing i feel was a little out.
Player
Action
Cards
Amount
Pot
Balance
clemo1980
Small blind
£0.02
£0.02
£2.08
Wilhelm
Big blind
£0.04
£0.06
£3.96
Your hole cards
7
7
jbpoker
Raise
£0.12
£0.18
£7.26
The_Don90
Call
£0.12
£0.30
£3.84
clubhammer
Fold
clemo1980
Call
£0.10
£0.40
£1.98
Wilhelm
Call
£0.08
£0.48
£3.88
Flop
7
4
2
clemo1980
Check
Wilhelm
Check
jbpoker
Check
The_Don90
Check
Turn
Q
clemo1980
Check
Wilhelm
Bet
£0.30
£0.78
£3.58
jbpoker
Call
£0.30
£1.08
£6.96
The_Don90
Raise
£1.34
£2.42
£2.50
clemo1980
Fold
Wilhelm
Fold
jbpoker
Fold
The_Don90
Muck
The_Don90
Win
£1.27
£3.77
The_Don90
Return
£1.04
£0.11
£4.81
Hand 4) Last winning hand im going to show. This particular villian was calling bigger and bigger openings, so much so i increased my open every hand. By this time he was actually getting short and i decided just to set him in pre, almost double what my previous raise size had got to but felt it was correct.
Player
Action
Cards
Amount
Pot
Balance
The_Don90
Small blind
£0.02
£0.02
£4.36
daviddev17
Big blind
£0.04
£0.06
£3.66
Your hole cards
A
K
greenace
Fold
MARYBOBBIN
Fold
Brode
Call
£0.04
£0.10
£0.70
The_Don90
Raise
£0.74
£0.84
£3.62
daviddev17
Fold
Brode
All-in
£0.70
£1.54
£0.00
The_Don90
Unmatched bet
£0.02
£1.52
£3.64
The_Don90
Show
A
K
Brode
Show
J
Q
Flop
K
8
K
Turn
10
River
2
The_Don90
Win
Three Kings
£1.40
£5.04
Hand 5) Just a cooler i think. AQ looks pretty safe most of the time on this board. but im open to discussion
Player
Action
Cards
Amount
Pot
Balance
chelseashe
Small blind
£0.02
£0.02
£0.57
Slider73
Big blind
£0.04
£0.06
£4.11
Your hole cards
Q
A
The_Don90
Raise
£0.20
£0.26
£4.03
jbpoker
Fold
clubhammer
Call
£0.20
£0.46
£5.10
cloon
Fold
chelseashe
Fold
Slider73
Fold
Flop
7
2
Q
The_Don90
Bet
£0.35
£0.81
£3.68
clubhammer
Call
£0.35
£1.16
£4.75
Turn
9
The_Don90
Bet
£0.87
£2.03
£2.81
clubhammer
Raise
£2.32
£4.35
£2.43
The_Don90
All-in
£2.81
£7.16
£0.00
clubhammer
Call
£1.36
£8.52
£1.07
The_Don90
Show
Q
A
clubhammer
Show
2
2
River
5
clubhammer
Win
Three 2s
£7.88
£8.95
Hand 6) Think i actually got away light here. When i seen the action i was still 3 tabling and had 3bet and thought the opponent was all in hense the flat. Obviously once no cards where flipped i was curing then missing i was cursing even more. Upon seeing cards i think i got away cheap. Open for discussion again.
Player
Action
Cards
Amount
Pot
Balance
mike1959
Small blind
£0.02
£0.02
£1.18
Wilhelm
Big blind
£0.04
£0.06
£5.44
Your hole cards
K
A
jbpoker
Raise
£0.12
£0.18
£6.75
The_Don90
Raise
£0.44
£0.62
£4.34
azukira
Fold
clubhammer
Raise
£1.72
£2.34
£4.15
mike1959
All-in
£1.18
£3.52
£0.00
Wilhelm
Fold
jbpoker
Fold
The_Don90
Call
£1.28
£4.80
£3.06
Flop
10
9
5
The_Don90
Check
clubhammer
Bet
£2.40
£7.20
£1.75
The_Don90
Fold
clubhammer
Unmatched bet
£2.40
£4.80
£4.15
mike1959
Show
8
8
clubhammer
Show
K
K
Turn
2
River
9
clubhammer
Win
Two Pairs, Kings and 9s
£4.44
£8.59
Hand 7) Final hand ill post. When i 3bet here i decided i was calling off any bets due to my stack. When the short stack called i decided that i was going to set him in on any safish looking flop. I know an over gna land most of the time but hes only got £1 back with a £1 pot. Q anded and felt the board was safe enough. Sighhh
Player
Action
Cards
Amount
Pot
Balance
The_Don90
Small blind
£0.02
£0.02
£2.71
Wilhelm
Big blind
£0.04
£0.06
£6.03
Your hole cards
J
J
LethalBen
Fold
ben170583
Raise
£0.12
£0.18
£1.40
jbpoker
Call
£0.12
£0.30
£5.70
The_Don90
Raise
£0.42
£0.72
£2.29
Wilhelm
Fold
ben170583
Call
£0.32
£1.04
£1.08
jbpoker
Fold
Flop
2
3
Q
The_Don90
All-in
£2.29
£3.33
£0.00
ben170583
All-in
£1.08
£4.41
£0.00
The_Don90
Unmatched bet
£1.21
£3.20
£1.21
The_Don90
Show
J
J
ben170583
Show
2
A
Turn
6
River
Q
ben170583
Win
Flush to the Ace
£2.96
£2.96
Please discuss these. I know most look like BBY and coolers, but that session i felt showed massive improvement, despite being 1.75BIs down. The main issue i had which isnt highlighted here was the lack of ability to get to flops with big hands, i think i had AAs and KKs a few times and never got more than 6p once.
1 fold pre readless, postflop fine 2 fold to 3bet 3 bet flop 4 nh 5 meh I would fold readless, might be a call at 4NL 6 fold pre to cold 4b, obv jam better than flatting 7 fine with stacksizes, I might sometimes check to him, but its going in
In Response to Re: why i cant beat nl4. Sigh. some BBY but want advice. sick of losing at this level. : Aside from all this moaning abuot 4NL being unbeatable... I'd say 95%+ of us know that's nonsense but I must say TinTin, that is a mighty fine month's worth of profit from 4NL!! How many tables do you play and how many hours dya do a day/week/month if you don't mind me asking? Also, I always said that it was virtually impossible to get anything meaningful from C4P via 4NL but if you've played 300k in 2012 alone, you must have earned a few points along the way... what's an average number of poker points for you at 4NL in a month? Posted by Lambert180
i dont mind you asking at all,
i play 6 tables but i have a computer thats badly needing updating, its around 5 yr old n 6 tables i suffer some lag or i would be trying 8, 10 or 12 tables.
my usual routine is play from around 11 in morn thru to 2 2:30 then start again around 5:30 n play thru til midnight, some nights its 2 or 3am depending if things are going well n im not tired. i do this most days.
the recent reduction in points per raked hand at nl4 has hit me harder than most if im truthfull as before 31st jan i could earn 4000 points in a couple of weeks. in march i hit 4200 for £67ish for a full month of playing, i cant remember missing a day of playing but there was a couple where i only played for a couple of hours. february i earned just over 3000 n jan under old system it was over 4000. this month im only on 2350 n in truth im not going to be playing the rest of the month. i need a break as ive been hammering it for the last 7 weeks. i will start again when i receive my nxt c4p payment. i need to recharge my brain
ive said before on other threads that i only play when im out of work hence why ive been logging so many hours in last few months
1 fold pre readless, postflop fine 2 fold to 3bet 3 bet flop 4 nh 5 meh I would fold readless, might be a call at 4NL 6 fold pre to cold 4b, obv jam better than flatting 7 fine with stacksizes, I might sometimes check to him, but its going in Posted by grantorino
Thanks for good responce mate. in regards to the AK hand where i flatted a 4b i genuinely thought he was all in. Ummm, may i ask, you said in a previous thread you didnt like the 3b fold of AK. So im a little confused.
hand 5 against unknowns i'd call. not in this hand hand 6. your opponent has bashed the 4x button after your 3 bet. as good as typing his hand in the chat box. Posted by TINTIN
Being honest i think my table selection was a little off, maybe youll be able to answer that much better than others.
In Response to Re: why i cant beat nl4. Sigh. some BBY but want advice. sick of losing at this level. : Being honest i think my table selection was a little off, maybe youll be able to answer that much better than others. Just to confirm your folding the AQ ??? Thanks for feedback Posted by The_Don90
in that specific hand yes im folding.
yeah table selection could do with a little working on
In Response to Re: why i cant beat nl4. Sigh. some BBY but want advice. sick of losing at this level. : in that specific hand yes im folding. yeah table selection could do with a little working on Posted by TINTIN
thanks mate. Been a while so alot of the regs have moved on and are replaced with different ones. People i once thought where fish are now actually half decent etc.
In Response to Re: why i cant beat nl4. Sigh. some BBY but want advice. sick of losing at this level. : thanks mate. Been a while so alot of the regs have moved on and are replaced with different ones. People i once thought where fish are now actually half decent etc. Posted by The_Don90
There are plenty of new ones on me after a couple of months. I start at the bottom of the table list and scroll up looking for softer tables and noting who's sitting at several tables with a full stack.
Bum hunting at nl4 does seem wrong somehow though. lol
In Response to Re: why i cant beat nl4. Sigh. some BBY but want advice. sick of losing at this level. : Thanks for good responce mate. in regards to the AK hand where i flatted a 4b i genuinely thought he was all in. Ummm, may i ask, you said in a previous thread you didnt like the 3b fold of AK. So im a little confused. Posted by The_Don90
Well, its a bit different when you get cold 4b, esp at 4NL. If the guy who opened 4bets, I dont think you can fold without very specific reads on his ranges for calling/4betting as you obv wanted action when you 3bet. However in this case you 3bet an utg open and a guy behind cold 4bets you are usually in big trouble readless
In Response to Re: why i cant beat nl4. Sigh. some BBY but want advice. sick of losing at this level. : Well, its a bit different when you get cold 4b, esp at 4NL. If the guy who opened 4bets, I dont think you can fold without very specific reads on his ranges for calling/4betting as you obv wanted action when you 3bet. However in this case you 3bet an utg open and a guy behind cold 4bets you are usually in big trouble readless Posted by grantorino
Comments
No doubting you, i see you winning constantly on the tables, just curious as i start to build my own roll up at this level.
from looking at the hands don posted, most of it isnt unusual. there is a couple played horribly but others have already mentioned about them so no point going over it again.
i do think don tries to over analyze things too much for this level. sometimes you just gotta take the beat n move on to the nxt hand.
Bet big hands, fold small ones, don't semi-bluff draws, just check/call (if you have the odds), make your hand, pile in the money. Sometimes you get bad beated, put note on player saying 'idiot called my shove with a gutshot', then rinse and repeat.
How many tables do you play and how many hours dya do a day/week/month if you don't mind me asking?
Also, I always said that it was virtually impossible to get anything meaningful from C4P via 4NL but if you've played 300k in 2012 alone, you must have earned a few points along the way... what's an average number of poker points for you at 4NL in a month?
Ok hope not to bore you. I had a session before. I had £13 in account and spoke to dohhh, i said id short multitable giving me some leeway. He suggested just play 3 tables with the max. i reluctantly accepted on the basis that he'd watch via team viewer. this way we could discuss as we go.
Ill post some hands, as i still finnished down, although i think these are all pretty standard but would still like some discussion.
Hand 1) Not actually happy with my play pre but i knew one oppo would likley pay me if i hit. Although still not happy with it.
Please discuss these. I know most look like BBY and coolers, but that session i felt showed massive improvement, despite being 1.75BIs down. The main issue i had which isnt highlighted here was the lack of ability to get to flops with big hands, i think i had AAs and KKs a few times and never got more than 6p once.
2 fold to 3bet
3 bet flop
4 nh
5 meh I would fold readless, might be a call at 4NL
6 fold pre to cold 4b, obv jam better than flatting
7 fine with stacksizes, I might sometimes check to him, but its going in
i play 6 tables but i have a computer thats badly needing updating, its around 5 yr old n 6 tables i suffer some lag or i would be trying 8, 10 or 12 tables.
my usual routine is play from around 11 in morn thru to 2 2:30 then start again around 5:30 n play thru til midnight, some nights its 2 or 3am depending if things are going well n im not tired. i do this most days.
the recent reduction in points per raked hand at nl4 has hit me harder than most if im truthfull as before 31st jan i could earn 4000 points in a couple of weeks. in march i hit 4200 for £67ish for a full month of playing, i cant remember missing a day of playing but there was a couple where i only played for a couple of hours. february i earned just over 3000 n jan under old system it was over 4000. this month im only on 2350 n in truth im not going to be playing the rest of the month. i need a break as ive been hammering it for the last 7 weeks. i will start again when i receive my nxt c4p payment. i need to recharge my brain
ive said before on other threads that i only play when im out of work hence why ive been logging so many hours in last few months
hand 6. your opponent has bashed the 4x button after your 3 bet. as good as typing his hand in the chat box.
Just to confirm your folding the AQ ???
Thanks for feedback
yeah table selection could do with a little working on
Bum hunting at nl4 does seem wrong somehow though. lol