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Life In The Middle Lane

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  • Phantom66Phantom66
    edited October 2013
    In Response to Re: Life In The Middle Lane:
    I know you asked Julian. In most tournaments where ante's are involved you always get really good odds on defending your BB with any 2 and if someone is opening a wide range from late position you can't afford to be folding playable hands. Obviously if we're facing an early position opener though and have a hand like QTo even though we might still be getting a really good price, defending is just so much worse because we don't realise our equity and have a lot of RIO with a hand like this. Will let Julian add any more if he wants on this! Anyway just like to add how good a read this thread's been! :)
    Posted by F_Ivanovic
    No worries - it is a community forum and happy to take feedback from anyone

    Hadn't factored the antes although some descriptions were earlyish day 1 - presumably no antes yet?

    "just like to add how good a read this thread's been"  big + 1
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  • yoyoyoyo
    edited October 2013

    thanks for all the replies guys

     

    i've always considered myself a live player, to me the games are very different, live you just get so much more of a feel for individual players & the overall flow of the game.

    online i often feel i'm guessing a lot more although that's probably down to me not being able to focus on one table as well as i can in a live setting.

    advice-wise, the best way to improve as a live player is to put some hours in on the tables, engage in conversation & try to engross yourself in the game - oftentimes the information is out there, just be observant & you should become fairly comfortable within a few sessions regardless of results.

     

    i'm definitely more peel-happy in the blinds of late - i mean i know we're out of position but the price is always good, especially so vs a min raise &, by policing your blinds you at least let folk know that you're not an easy target.

    i'm binning off-suited trash but given the right line-up & if it's going to go 3 or 4 way i'm likely to call pretty wide - i'm never really thinking that a flopped top pair will ever be good in these spots, the value is in trashy two-pair hands & draws.

     

    tbh i'll go often against the 'standard 20bb playbook'; why not give your game a little more flexibility & peel one every now again, it's probably going to cost you what, 1.5bbs? obviously discipline & a keen nose are required when for instance you hit a queen high flop with Q-10 - the way i look at it is that you're getting a helluv@ discount to see a flop from the blinds & flops aren't always easy to see from that stack size.

     

    at this point i should probably point out that i'm far from a technically correct player, so please don't be thinking it's tried, tested & a 100% ready to go...the waters are often murky & call/check/folding doesn't feel at all dynamic the majority of the time!

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  • Phantom66Phantom66
    edited October 2013
    Some great points there Julian. Thanks for taking the time to respond to specific questions.

    gl in Edinburgh
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  • yoyoyoyo
    edited October 2013
    back home for half term after a pretty hectic couple of weeks,

    shot up to edinburgh two weekends back for the GPS; ended up firing 2 bullets & still couldn't get through the day...didn't feel like i played particularly well, was pretty card dead & after the grind in london i just couldn't seem to muster the same levels of patience & discipline.

    i faired a little better in luton, felt fresher & ready to go; i played the 300, the 200 6max & the 1k main event, twice, eek.

    the 300 went well in that i came back for day 2 with a shortish stack but ran it up to an average one for the final table - it started well & i really thought i was gonna make a run at it but i lost a AQ v JJ flip & then called off KJ in the SB vs a button shove who had me pipped with KQ; end result 8th for £1200.

    did i mention it was my birthday? i turned 46; it's always nice to make a FT on your birthday, especially when the casino really look after you - complimentary food & beverages were relentlessly thrown at me & wouldn't you know the 6max kicked off just as i busted the 300 so armed with never less than 2 pints of guinness at any one time i jumped right in.

    it didn't work out so good but i had fun & still managed to retire to my bed before midnight as it was the main event the following day.

    it was never my intention to play 1a & 1b but 1a was a pretty frustrating plod that ended up in a big flip for a decent stack in level 8, this time JJ not holding v AK.
    day 1b wasn't very dissimilar in fairness, plodsville central for 8 hours, double up with QQ v A10 on a AQ4 flop then promptly do 90% of that new stack back to the same player when he ships 107dd on a KJd6d flop v my AK.
    i shoved my last 15bb with A10 & ran into AK & KK behind...that's when you know it's time to go home lol.

    we're on half term now, my mum's over for the week & it hasn't stopped raining since she arrived - i predict lots of welly-based activities...marvellous.

    right, i'm off, hope to see some of you at the weekend for the big grand final!


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  • SlipwaterSlipwater
    edited October 2013
    A10 into AK and KK? Who said those kind of hands only happened online, eh? :D

    Enjoy the time with your ma, and I'll say hello at the Grand Final You can even buy me a drink with some of that £1200 you won in Luton... if you want.

    Brian
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  • Lambert180Lambert180
    edited October 2013
    Did you not see he bought into the £300 and the £1k ME... twice... think that £1200 is gone Brian lol.

    Another good read Julian, see you on the weekend.
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  • yoyoyoyo
    edited October 2013
    yes i'm afraid i can report that £1200 can go in the blink of an eye on the live circuit; def more bang for your buck online!

    & sure brian, come nudge me at some point & i'll get us a drink, if you're sporting that shirt again i'll find you ;o)
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  • SlipwaterSlipwater
    edited October 2013
    In Response to Re: Life In The Middle Lane:
    yes i'm afraid i can report that £1200 can go in the blink of an eye on the live circuit; def more bang for your buck online! & sure brian, come nudge me at some point & i'll get us a drink, if you're sporting that shirt again i'll find you ;o)
    Posted by yoyo
    I bought a new one just for the occasion ;)
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  • goldenb238goldenb238
    edited October 2013






           Great read Julian see you at weekend. should be emotional
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  • yoyoyoyo
    edited November 2013
    enjoyed the SPT weekend altho the main event didn't really pan out like i'd hoped.

    unfortunately the majority of the UKOPS festival clashed with my trip to the isle of man ukipt - the internet was pretty iffy in the hotel so i didn't chance it.

    i made day 2 in the main event with 30bb, survived almost 2 levels before 4b shoving JJ into what was, in hindsight, a pretty transparent KK....pretty disappointing.
    the side events were all well attended & most tables had 2 or 3 PS employers on them which definitely helped boost the numbers.
    i played a 300 & a 100 turbo...got chips in both, made a pretty spewy hero call in the 300 for a massive pot when really i could have cruised into day 2 & in the turbo at one point i must have had 600k when the average was 100k & only managed a min cash.

    so a few adjustments required; i'm off to blackpool tonight for the gukpt festival then a week or two off from the live scene until the next ukipt at dtd...aiming to get some volume in on here from next week!
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  • yoyoyoyo
    edited November 2013
    i meant to play the main event yesterday but have had two pretty late nights/long days since i've been in blackpool so i had a day off yesterday; i squeezed into the 300 final with 12bbs but was first out when i shoved K10 from early position - in hindsight i think that was too light from that position & wish i'd let the blinds go through me once more.

    the numbers have been really good & i reckon the main event will smash the guarantee...will report back later on how it pans out.
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  • VespaPXVespaPX
    edited November 2013
    Good Luck JT
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  • Sky_DaveSky_Dave
    edited November 2013
    In Response to Re: Life In The Middle Lane:
    i meant to play the main event yesterday but have had two pretty late nights/long days since i've been in blackpool so i had a day off yesterday; i squeezed into the 300 final with 12bbs but was first out when i shoved K10 from early position - in hindsight i think that was too light from that position & wish i'd let the blinds go through me once more. the numbers have been really good & i reckon the main event will smash the guarantee...will report back later on how it pans out.
    Posted by yoyo
    #rubdown.
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  • yoyoyoyo
    edited November 2013
    In Response to Re: Life In The Middle Lane:
    In Response to Re: Life In The Middle Lane : #rubdown.
    Posted by Sky_Dave

    always pays to be results orientated my son!

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  • TPTP123TPTP123
    edited November 2013
    Life is pretty results orientated!!

    Quick question on live play JT, do you think too many internet kids stack off too light live? when in the 8bb-12bb range?  Iwas discussing this the other day with someone about how some good post flop live only players (at small stake mtts...) seem to hold on for dear life when short and seem to be playing just to bubble instead of to win... 

    Sorry for the random question just fell in line with your last update 
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  • yoyoyoyo
    edited November 2013
    hey tptp,

    good question.

    the 8-12bb range offers very little flexibility & we should almost be shoving any 2 if it's folded to us in late position - unless the blinds are savvy players who recognise how light they should call us.

    so, it kinda depends on who's seated to your left - & how much you value your tournie life.

    certainly, online on sky poker with no antes it's possible to go as low as say 5bbs & still have a reasonable shot at a comeback, whereas with antes in play i probably wouldn't be too comfortable going below the 7-8bb mark.

    multi-tabling online pros prob won't allow themselves to go so low as they're playing with a far greater sample-size & they probably won't value their tournie life as much as you might with all the time, effort & ex's you've invested in say, a 3 day live event.

    personnally speaking, these days, i'm prepared to try & hang on to a short stack longer than i would have a few years back.


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  • hhyftrftdrhhyftrftdr
    edited November 2013
    In Response to Re: Life In The Middle Lane:
    hey tptp, good question. the 8-12bb range offers very little flexibility & we should almost be shoving any 2 if it's folded to us in late position - unless the blinds are savvy players who recognise how light they should call us. so, it kinda depends on who's seated to your left - & how much you value your tournie life. certainly, online on sky poker with no antes it's possible to go as low as say 5bbs & still have a reasonable shot at a comeback, whereas with antes in play i probably wouldn't be too comfortable going below the 7-8bb mark. multi-tabling online pros prob won't allow themselves to go so low as they're playing with a far greater sample-size & they probably won't value their tournie life as much as you might with all the time, effort & ex's you've invested in say, a 3 day live event. personnally speaking, these days, i'm prepared to try & hang on to a short stack longer than i would have a few years back.
    Posted by yoyo
    I've invested in a few of them ;)

    That last comment is interesting Julian. Is that just your experience taking over, or have you just generally become more patient as the years go by?
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  • yoyoyoyo
    edited November 2013
    hah,

    & yes, as no doubt tikay can testify to, with age comes patience ;o)
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  • GELDYGELDY
    edited November 2013
    In Response to Re: Life In The Middle Lane:
    Life is pretty results orientated!! Quick question on live play JT, do you think too many internet kids stack off too light live? when in the 8bb-12bb range?  Iwas discussing this the other day with someone about how some good post flop live only players (at small stake mtts...) seem to hold on for dear life when short and seem to be playing just to bubble instead of to win...  Sorry for the random question just fell in line with your last update 
    Posted by TPTP123
    my take on this is:

    many live players do not understand shoving ranges, and will run down their stack really low waiting for the "right" hand
    many online players playing live start to panic when they get low in chips and shove suboptimally

    the trick is to marry the two. ie look for the shoving spots as you go below 20BB, but  don't panic. if no suitable spots turn up just keep going round until one does, or you reach an atc shove spot which is well below 10BB.
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  • yoyoyoyo
    edited November 2013
    well said geldy!
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  • Jac35Jac35
    edited November 2013
    Hi Julian 

    I was wondering how you think your game has changed during your career?
    Obviously poker itself has changed in how it's played quite dramatically.
    Do you think you were kind of ahead of the game back then with your thinking and that helped you? I remember when I first started at Gala roughly 10 years ago people would think you were a maniac if you raised preflop with mid-pairs, Ace 10 etc.
    I remember I had a friend, Dave Wojcik, who was successful there and he only played live. he would never accept that anything other than limping pairs 10's and below was the right way to play.

    Everyone talks now about how the game is so much harder now, do you agree?
    Also, can you foresee a time when things will almost go full circle and 3x pre will become the standard again or limping will be back in fashion?

    Sorry, way too many questions!
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