New SnG promotion

F_Ivanovic

In Response to Re: New SnG promotion:

Excellent promo sky, I think people are forgetting its a promo! Its free money people! People who grind sit n go's can still grind them, enjoy the extra volume of players, make your edge count, so many people moan, thinking that its their godgiven right that promos should be aimed at them. Sky are trying to bring players onto this site, there have been posts that cash games are scarce andthis promo could spread onto the cash games!  So what if you could luckbox a good roi! Isn't that the fun of the promo! 
Posted by BOOBOO81

Promo's aren't supposed to be about free money. They're supposed to be about rewarding back the players who give sky a lot of money through rake. By rewarding these players they continue to put in high volume meaning sky are winners as well.

I've no problem with occasionally targeting promotions though towards players that don't put in as much volume - they're entitled to some rewards too with what volume they do put in.

Also I have complained about this promo yet it is a promo aimed at me. I don't play SNG's right now but I sure as well will be making sure I play 30 of them to give myself a shot at this promotion. 

The problem with this promo lies in the fact that the true SNG grinders of this site (those entitled to 'free money' from promotions) are now left in a tough situation wherby they can't do their usual grind because it means this promotion will just be impossible for them to win. The other problem with this promo is for sky - they have made the promotion in hopes of increasing the amount of SNG games played this month whereby in reality it won't be that much due to everyone only playing 30 games. Even if it does get a lot of action it will dry up again next month most likely as another cash promo will probably be around the corner. 

jdsallstar

In Response to Re: New SnG promotion:

It is almost certainly gonna be won by someone who plays 30 games or VERY close to 30 Slip. There's probably gonna be 200+ people easily who end up playing 30 SnGs. Just through basic averages there's a very good chance that over the course of 30 SnGs, 6 people from that big a player group will probably have a sick ROI from their first 30 games. Given it's free entry to a £5k GTD SnG, it would be pretty nuts to play on and damage your chances of winning entry. Having said that, it ticks pretty much ALL the boxses. 1) There is no advantage for low or high volume players 2) There is no advantage for low or high stakes players 3) Everyone is in with a shot 4) It will increase liquidity on SnGs* 5) It rewards skill** *People are saying it won't but it will. For a start most people who really wanna go for it are gonna be playing 'regular' SnGs cos ROIs are better and these never run so you're gonna have 200+ people (imo) all trying to get at least 30 games in and they've only got 2 weeks to do it. IIRC it's hard enough to get 1 game going, so you probably aint gonna be suddenly 6tabling them, it's gonna take a fair bit of time to get 30 games in so I think there will be pretty steady traffic on them for the last 2 weeks of March deffo. After that of course it might go back to normal, who knows, maybe people will get a taste for them, realise the lower rake (at micros) and better ROIs that are attainable v DYMs and action might increase a bit. **There will be a lot of rungood involved but Phil Galfond would still have a MUCH better chance of getting a sick ROI in his first 30 games than someone awful... I dunno, like AceGooner Luck will be involved, but a lot of skill will deffo increase your chances. Fwiw, I think it's a great promo
Posted by Lambert180

I'm sorry this is a terrible promo from a sng'ers point of view. and it doesnt tick one seriously important box if you're a sng player and play your usual volume of sng's you're screwed and wont get anywhere near it.

So SNG players constantly say there's no promo's for sng's and one of the first one's introduced is a sng promo that doesnt suit sng players who put in decent volume. 

Thanks Sky lol

DOHHHHHHH

I agree JD but theres 2 scenarios.

a) You play the 30 games and are in a top 6 position. This means you stop playing, but that 'blow' is cushioned by winning a seat worth £833. 

b) You play the 30 games and are outside of a top 6 position. This means you can just play on as usual (unless you somehow get back into the top 6 as your sample gets bigger. As others have said already, that wont happen.) 

So it's not that bad. Sure it'll be annoying having to find a new site to play on for 10 days or so, but it wont be too bad.

Of course there is potentially a scenario c) Where you hold a top 6 position for the majority of the promotion period then some guy blasts out 30 wins out of 30 on the final day and you slip to 7th, and end up with no seat and no volume. haha.

That'll probably happen to me.

As long as the leaderboard is updated regularly and accurately you should know where you stand and be able to make the best decision about what/where to play.

Does sound abit backwards that a 'promotion' could end up forcing players to play elsewhere though.

BOOBOO81

In Response to Re: New SnG promotion:

In Response to Re: New SnG promotion : Promo's aren't supposed to be about free money. They're supposed to be about rewarding back the players who give sky a lot of money through rake. By rewarding these players they continue to put in high volume meaning sky are winners as well. I've no problem with occasionally targeting promotions though towards players that don't put in as much volume - they're entitled to some rewards too with what volume they do put in. Also I have complained about this promo yet it is a promo aimed at me. I don't play SNG's right now but I sure as well will be making sure I play 30 of them to give myself a shot at this promotion.  The problem with this promo lies in the fact that the true SNG grinders of this site (those entitled to 'free money' from promotions) are now left in a tough situation wherby they can't do their usual grind because it means this promotion will just be impossible for them to win. The other problem with this promo is for sky - they have made the promotion in hopes of increasing the amount of SNG games played this month whereby in reality it won't be that much due to everyone only playing 30 games. Even if it does get a lot of action it will dry up again next month most likely as another cash promo will probably be around the corner. 
Posted by F_Ivanovic[/QUOTE

you make alot of valid points, and i understand that it doesnt appeal to the grinders, but they are few and far between as i have found out trying to rack up a few games this afternoon.
IMO if i was a sng grinder i would be happy with the extra volume even if it is short lived as there wil be people
who are not as adapt to sng strategy, we have had loads of promotions which suit grinders, whether it be rake races the trilogy free rolls and such, still people moan!
 i just feel that people need to give sky a break as they have provided a chunky bit of change for what people are actually doing at the moment without having too put too much volume in, alongside other promotions.
it appeals to everybody.
i dont normally play sng but i sure will put my 30 games in at least, the promos are way out of my reach as i work and have young children. its a 2 week promo give it a try it might change the perception of sng for a few and increase volume.
also  promos are not just about rewarding people who pay the rake its also about attracting new players,
to put it in a nutshell you cant keep everybody happy, in this promo they have gone for the majority and the minority have come out moaning.

DESERTTURK

In Response to Re: New SnG promotion:

It is almost certainly gonna be won by someone who plays 30 games or VERY close to 30 Slip. There's probably gonna be 200+ people easily who end up playing 30 SnGs. Just through basic averages there's a very good chance that over the course of 30 SnGs, 6 people from that big a player group will probably have a sick ROI from their first 30 games. Given it's free entry to a £5k GTD SnG, it would be pretty nuts to play on and damage your chances of winning entry. Having said that, it ticks pretty much ALL the boxses. 1) There is no advantage for low or high volume players 2) There is no advantage for low or high stakes players 3) Everyone is in with a shot 4) It will increase liquidity on SnGs* 5) It rewards skill** *People are saying it won't but it will. For a start most people who really wanna go for it are gonna be playing 'regular' SnGs cos ROIs are better and these never run so you're gonna have 200+ people (imo) all trying to get at least 30 games in and they've only got 2 weeks to do it. IIRC it's hard enough to get 1 game going, so you probably aint gonna be suddenly 6tabling them, it's gonna take a fair bit of time to get 30 games in so I think there will be pretty steady traffic on them for the last 2 weeks of March deffo. After that of course it might go back to normal, who knows, maybe people will get a taste for them, realise the lower rake (at micros) and better ROIs that are attainable v DYMs and action might increase a bit. **There will be a lot of rungood involved but Phil Galfond would still have a MUCH better chance of getting a sick ROI in his first 30 games than someone awful... I dunno, like AceGooner Luck will be involved, but a lot of skill will deffo increase your chances. Fwiw, I think it's a great promo
Posted by Lambert180

so if i play on the lowest stake SNG and win say 15 out of 30 would my ROI be the same as sum1 who wins 15 out of 30 but at the highest stake... Does the 5k final table pay all 6 players ?

SoLack

I'm in - sounds like good fun

Lambert180

In Response to Re: New SnG promotion:

In Response to Re: New SnG promotion : so if i play on the lowest stake SNG and win say 15 out of 30 would my ROI be the same as sum1 who wins 15 out of 30 but at the highest stake... Does the 5k final table pay all 6 players ?
Posted by DESERTTURK

As long as the rake is the same then yes. I dunno what the payouts are etc but assuming rake is 10% and assume 1st place is 4x the BI

Win 5 out of 5 games @ £1 + 10p games (so 5 cashes of £4) = £14.50 profit = 263% ROI

Win 5 out of 5 games @ £50 + £5 games (so 5 cashes of £200 = £725 profit = 263% ROI.

Sky need to answer whether it's Total ROI or Average ROI though, and as soon as possible

gerardirl

They sure do, collusion is a danger in this type of promo and if its total roi its very easy to collude into winning a £50 pound game , playing 29 very low stakes and making top 6 which will earn how much?

Hopefully sky will clear this up shortly.

belsibub

Been thinking about this a lot.I like the idea and can understand why sky like to set up a final for these sit & go promo's that they can show on tv.But like the last one that ran all the money is up top only six are rewarded,little to no incentive to carry on if you run bad at the start.

Every other promo that's run recently has rewarded a fair few,wish this one did as well.(just my opinion don't expect anyone else to agree)

DESERTTURK

In Response to Re: New SnG promotion:

Sky has already stated this promo is based on % not cash accumulation % so regardless if you win a £ 50  or a £1 I suspect the % is the same if I am not mistaken .. £1.10  wins £3.90 ..  £55 = £195 both I believe are the same % ratio in a six max sky sam already answered this in a previous post I asked in.  I am sure this clarifies the situation. Maybe I am  missing something.....?   but I think not.??? eg :We play a DYM for £50 and win we are 90% up and if we play a DYM for £1  loss we are back to - zero % and this will continue through from games 1-30+ Now that's hypothetical and just an example of how I think it will be as he stated it`s % AND NOT CASH GENERATION % Sit n go max will generate for a win 280%  and a 2nd around 100%  regardless of stake ( 50p excluded) DYMs will generate for a win 90% All figures are approx. So we may be looking at   2800% + ROI% ( that's 10 wins 10 2nds and 10 loss`s in 6 max ) for a chance of qualification if my calculations are correct .. lol I do  think this is the way they will do it? given its percentage based. This is also clearly pointed out on the skill n go`s promotion page with a game example illustration  in ROI% format I feel when the mention of collusion and playing 1 high stakes game and 29 smaller stake games  where first mentioned as loopholes.......... The snowball effect took a hold of people  in an instance and they got blinded . PS: I may be completely wrong and this is all tosh ....... Time will tell I guess.fine im happy with that personally i dont want to play too low stakes coz i want a bit of drive and incentive to play, Defo dont want to play 30 sngs and make 12quid or watever it is  so gonna play 5 or 10 buy in maybe even 33 knowing the play will be better on these tables.Dont want to sound dumb here but if its not to do with cash return then a cash in a dym is not the same as a normal 6 max sng? wonder if 13 or 14 wins and no seconds will win this i think i could pull that off.. lol
Posted by footsie66

DESERTTURK

sorry footsie do not know how i posted on yours was meant for new.

nagrom

Think this is a great promo. Regular 6max SnG's seem to have become almost obsolete on Sky, for some time now. This will boost traffic on that side of things. 

Also it throws up some very tasty situations which can occur. Lots of intelligent decisions will have to be made over what games to play, when to play them and how many. May even see people just outside the leader board targeting those in it towards the end of their 30 games.

When the actually 5k SnG takes place there should be a really good mix of skill sets, which will be really fun to watch. 

IMO the 'flaws' in this promo make it far more interesting,  props to Sky

unknown_username

Are most of you missing a key point here (or have i got this wrong), i thought sky bank your first 30 game %, then you go again with another try in the next 30 games?

so it will not hit anyone playing loads of games, and in fact give a player a better chance of improving there allready banked %.

Tikay10

In Response to Re: New SnG promotion:

Are most of you missing a key point here (or have i got this wrong), i thought sky bank your first 30 game %, then you go again with another try in the next 30 games? so it will not hit anyone playing loads of games, and in fact give a player a better chance of improving there allready banked %.
Posted by ms-tree

Hi (again!).

No, I dont think that is correct.

It requires a MINIMUM of 30 SNG's before your ROI is measured, not 30 in total.

The actual words are.....


"....We will measure your level of skill based on the ROI (Return On Investment) of 30 or more 6 Max Sit & Go’s....."

DESERTTURK

In Response to Re: New SnG promotion:

In Response to Re: New SnG promotion : Hi (again!). No, I dont think that is correct. It requires a MINIMUM of 30 SNG's before your ROI is measured, not 30 in total. The actual words are..... "....We will measure your level of skill based on the ROI (Return On Investment) of 30 or more 6 Max Sit & Go’s....."
Posted by Tikay10

but does this mean that higher stakes players could earn more just by playing big buy in sngs, and tikay do u know if all six players will be paid in the final sit n go, cheers m8

Tikay10

In Response to Re: New SnG promotion:

In Response to Re: New SnG promotion : but does this mean that higher stakes players could earn more just by playing big buy in sngs, and tikay do u know if all six players will be paid in the final sit n go, cheers m8
Posted by DESERTTURK

Not the way I read it, no.

ROI is a percentage, & is not related to buy-in size, as I see it. 

The way the 6 Finalists will split the Prize Pool will be made known shortly.  

See the thread I started earlier today, which explains the situation, or will shortly, HERE

BorinLoner

At present the promo page indicates:

(Total winnings - total buy-ins) / total buy-ins

will be used. This would lead to total ROI rather than average ROI being the determining number. In that case, the promotion can be exploited, as others have suggested, by winning one extremely high value SNG, then playing 29 low value ones. For example, win one £55 sng and take £195 from that, then play 29 55p SNG's and lose them all:


(195 - 70.95) / 70.95 = 174.8%

DESERTTURK

In Response to Re: New SnG promotion:

In Response to Re: New SnG promotion : Not the way I read it, no. ROI is a percentage, & is not related to buy-in size, as I see it.  The way the 6 Finalists will split the Prize Pool will be made known shortly.   See the thread I started earlier today, which explains the situation, or will shortly, HERE
Posted by Tikay10

thax m8 just thought if they pay all six players then all the hard work to make final six would not be for nothing, even like 2.5k down to 500 watever sky will make the right decision

Tikay10

In Response to Re: New SnG promotion:

At present the promo page indicates: (Total winnings - total buy-ins) / total buy-ins will be used. This would lead to total ROI rather than average ROI being the determining number. In that case, the promotion can be exploited, as others have suggested, by winning one extremely high value SNG, then playing 29 low value ones. For example, win one £55 sng and take £195 from that, then play 29 55p SNG's and lose them all: (195 - 70.95) / 70.95 = 174.8%
Posted by BorinLoner

Yes, noted, but please see THIS

Tikay10

In Response to Re: New SnG promotion:

In Response to Re: New SnG promotion : thax m8 just thought if they pay all six players then all the hard work to make final six would not be for nothing, even like 2.5k down to 500 watever sky will make the right decision
Posted by DESERTTURK

Well we shall see shortly Mr Turk, but I would imagine all 6 will get something. Just a guess, like.

The prize payout structure will be made known shortly.  

BorinLoner

In Response to Re: New SnG promotion:

In Response to Re: New SnG promotion : Yes, noted, but please see THIS
Posted by Tikay10

Yes, I've just seen that and hopefully the wording will be changed on the promotion page.

It would be a pity if this promotion didn't achieve what it set out to. It's a very good idea with, perhaps, the odd problem in the execution. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for it.

BorinLoner

For what it's worth, the absolute maximum ROI in a single sng is 254.5%, so that would be the maximum ROI if average is used.

Sky_Sam

To clear things up, AVERAGE ROI will be used not TOTAL ROI.

We'll update the promo page to make it a bit clearer now.

unknown_username

I think it's a great promotion!
At least for the duration, you wont have to wait long for your table to open and bigger bankrolled regs will have guaranteed action.
Its a win for all, whatever your bankroll
and an opportunity for Paige55 to take it down with her 30p dyms and add a second title to her top of the posts lol

Just a thought, whats the world record for consecutive dym wins?
There's a possibility it could be broken. Wouldn't that be an achievement?

Tikay10

AVERAGE ROI

belsibub

In Response to Re: New SnG promotion:

I think it's a great promotion! At least for the duration, you wont have to wait long for your table to open and bigger bankrolled regs will have guaranteed action. Its a win for all, whatever your bankroll and an opportunity for Paige55 to take it down with her 30p dyms and add a second title to her top of the posts lol Just a thought, whats the world record for consecutive dym wins? There's a possibility it could be broken. Wouldn't that be an achievement?
Posted by DUNMIDOSH

DEL560 had 50 that was the record then not sure if it has changed.

Tikay10

A reminder, this Promo begins at 1 minute after midnight tonight, i.e., 00.01, Tuesday 18th March.

gerardirl

Yes he won it playing 30p and 60p omaha dyms. 52 I think it was and yes it still stands today.

With the high rake his roi wouldnt have been too high though.

belsibub

In Response to Re: New SnG promotion:

Yes he won it playing 30p and 60p omaha dyms. 52 I think it was and yes it still stands today. With the high rake his roi wouldnt have been too high though.
Posted by gerardirl

Defo 50 see here...

Guys & Gals lets hear it for the mannnnnnnn Del560 / Derek he has finished up with a incredible 50 dym winning streak / info in opening post

F_Ivanovic

Started.... and most likely failed my challenge tonight.

Well maybe not quite failed just yet. have played 6 (still got a 7th going) and only won 1. Came close to 2nd 3 of the times but bubbled

Not ran too well, kings being bust a couple times then someone calling my 3 barrel with 4th pair!! (lesson learnt not to try that again in micro stakes.