Further misadventures of a fish at the cash tables

shakinaces

And as I pass the time before playing any 'proper' poker, well done Sky for your freeroll password reminding me (a Forest fan) to find some spare life-roll cash to bet on Ipswich in some fashion this afternoon... with at least two ex-Forest players in their team I'm sure there is some money to be made in cushioning another inevitable game of disappointment... even against a side where we are usually the bogey team!  

6/5 Ipswich win... 28s for Luke Chambers FGS e/w... he earned me some good scores with his goals in a Forest shirt and am sure feels he owes us one lol

I don't know why I'm even playing this freeroll... winning tickets for the remainder of this season may be more punishment than reward...

shakinaces

OK so I don't know where this will go, but in other ventures a diary spot has helped focus my mind on improving so perhaps this will throw a hobnail boot at my backside and help get my poker on a more consistent upwards curve. Posts mostly to focus my own mind, but any shoeings or guidance will be very much welcomed!

After years of one-off deposits and withdrawing winnings / spewing on Sky Vegas, I bunged £20 on when I returned from holiday in October 2012 and wanted something to do while off work and getting over jetlag, with the plan to run up a bankroll.

Got lucky and have been in +ve ever since, with one month credit card bill for a couple of hundred quid cleared from a withdrawal but other than that not touched my Sky monies. And also self-excluded from Vegas to prevent donating to Mr Murdoch via that platform (best decision ever!)

That said, a lot of it has felt like treading water and not really working to get things clicked into place. Must do better.

I briefly ran like God last night to finally move my sharkscope back into positive territory and wholly intend to keep it there by the end of March next year (then beyond?) - but cash is and will remain my primary focus. Bankroll currently just shy of £500 so almost legit rolled for NL10 again and will mix NL8/NL10 and action NL5 along with smaller buyin tournis.

Plus I've just bought my first house and it's chewing up all my money... winning enough to spark a holiday later this year would be boss!

Base Targets next 12 months:

Maintain sharkscope +ve 

Be in profit from cash!

Earn a minimum of 500pts poker rewards from cash every month

Have meaningful notes on 80% of players at NL8/10

Mix at least an hour of non-playing poker study in with every week of playing

Seek a way to get more involved with better players that can drag my game on, be that formal coaching or ???

Not partaking in any other Sky Vegas-style gambling

Update this thing at least once for every week I play... especially when I'm getting beaten up at the tables

Stretch Targets:

Make at least £1k profit

Earn at least 1k poker points from cash each month

Win a main or mini (once bankroll gets big enough!)

Have my toe dipped in the NL20 waters or above

Getting a hand shown on ch861 where I pull off a ridic three-barrel bluff that somehow gets through

CraigSG1

Good luck. We have already bumped noses at 10nl (thoughts?) and hope you do well (but not against me!).

Would love to swap advice on each others play and remember to post hands.

LARSON7

Hey buddy, good luck!

Nice 1, getting a knew house! Expensive business:) Well done on running up £20 to 500 nice effort!

Your 1st post be in profit from cash, easy:) You have that sorted right away.

The best thing to do at 10nl is table select and winnings easy.

If you see a table full of regular nits avoid it, there is no point in playing for the sake of it. With the rake (which is massive at this level) it is just not possible to make money if there is 4 nits on the table who need the nuts to commit to a big pot.

Pick tables with a maximum of 3 regs on it, the less "regs" the better. Another good thing to do is to start up  tables, just sit on an empty table and let the table fill doing this cuts out most of the regs, cause they hardly ever sit at a short handed table. You have a good game and it's way  better than nitty ABC poker (of most of those you play at 10nl), so you will do really well imo. Do that and you are well onto your way 2 1k.

Defo take notes, i'm really terrible at that, something i need to improve on.

Defo spend some time studying, you can get loads of free poker videos on you tube showing cash getting played. Looker over hands to spot mistakes, the biggest mistakes are made in smaller pots, the bigger ones tend to be coolers.

If you are playing a lot of MTT's might be an idea to join a team.
 
There is a TPT skype group also. If you want to join just pm me your skype and i'll add you.

Anyway good luck and look forward to hearing how you get on.



Base Targets next 12 months:

Maintain sharkscope +ve 

Be in profit from cash!

Earn a minimum of 500pts poker rewards from cash every month

Have meaningful notes on 80% of players at NL8/10

Mix at least an hour of non-playing poker study in with every week of playing

Seek a way to get more involved with better players that can drag my game on, be that formal coaching or ???

Not partaking in any other Sky Vegas-style gambling

Update this thing at least once for every week I play... especially when I'm getting beaten up at the tables

Stretch Targets:

Make at least £1k profit

Earn at least 1k poker points from cash each month

Win a main or mini (once bankroll gets big enough!)

Have my toe dipped in the NL20 waters or above

Getting a hand shown on ch861 where I pull off a ridic three-barrel bluff that somehow gets through

shakinaces

Not sure this will work, but hopefully links to strategy-request hands works better than putting them in here, which most people will never peruse.

AK cash strategy query

3-bet pots is what I want to focus on improving first, this is where the pots get interesting so key to try and find / fix leaks in that part of my game.

Looking for cash game start on the web is a confusing trip - most reference tracking stats to base their explanations and, although you get a feel for stats on here, it's a challenge to think about applying any of the concepts directly.

It will be interesting to see what would happen to the poker world if the tracking software was suddenly turned off across the whole industry and we all had to kick it old skool again.

Yesterday was good cash wise, over £20 up, offsetting two bounty hunters that yielded 1 measly head prize. Poker Gods quite fairly seeing me lose flips to make up for winning them all yesterday!

There was also only 1 'bad' beat of sorts that I can remember, positive or negative. Most pots won without showdown or visited value town against calling stations. That maybe shows I played an OK session?  The bad beat saw me happily dump me chips in with a set of 7s vs an aggressive player on an A-high flop... only for runner-runner higher full-house. Not much I can do there but reload and start chipping my money back from him!

shakinaces

In Response to Re: a little fish trying to out-swim the sharks...:

Good luck. We have already bumped noses at 10nl (thoughts?) and hope you do well (but not against me!). Would love to swap advice on each others play and remember to post hands.
Posted by CraigSG1

You are one of the players I try to minimise playing against tbh! Having been a passive reader of your thread, you are obviously a decent player and better than I am so not much point in getting out of line!

If I think I have anything worthwhile to share I'll drop you a message... my current notes would be worthless to you (aka you currently own me at the tables lol)

shakinaces

In Response to Re: a little fish trying to out-swim the sharks...:

The best thing to do at 10nl is table select and winnings easy. If you see a table full of regular nits avoid it, there is no point in playing for the sake of it. With the rake (which is massive at this level) it is just not possible to make money if there is 4 nits on the table who need the nuts to commit to a big pot. Pick tables with a maximum of 3 regs on it, the less "regs" the better.

Hi Larson, cheers for the reply - this is something I think has always been a strength(?) of mine, sit down at tables with players I don't recognise/non-'regs' and be happy to take my money and walk when the regs start to join.

I query whether a strength, as it is obviously a bit bumhunterish and, although it may be the right thing to do bankroll-wise, am I avoiding opportunities to improve via playing and learning to beat superior players?

No disrespect to NL10 players, but with hard graft it feels like a player should be able to regularly beat (almost) anyone at this level - indeed SHOULD be doing that before moving up the levels (irrespective of bankroll).

In Response to Re: a little fish trying to out-swim the sharks...:

You have a good game and it's way  better than nitty ABC poker (of most of those you play at 10nl), so you will do really well imo.

AKA I play too wide a range and 3-bet / 3-barrel calling stations too frequently

In Response to Re: a little fish trying to out-swim the sharks...:

If you are playing a lot of MTT's might be an idea to join a team.   There is a TPT skype group also. If you want to join just pm me your skype and i'll add you.

I get the impression that teams aren't as active on here as they once were? Never got my head around skype in truth, but sounds like something I should also work on. Will PM you when I've sussed getting the account running on my laptop.

DTWBANDIT

     Best of luck with this aces, 

CraigSG1

I would like to add my thoughts on Larson saying to try and stay away from nitty regs. 

I really dont care who I sit down against. Yes there a lot of players I dont want to sit with but I will never improve if I dont test myself and get used to different styles. For example I dont like sitting with Larson himself as he is very good aggressive player but I would like to think he doesnt like me either! I can trap him or bluff him in my own way and he can do the same. I wouldnt have been able to had I not tested myself.

Winning money against soft tables is nice, but winning money off good players is only good for our game!!

shakinaces

Well after an hour of watching a micro level video on pokertube, I fire up some tables to try and play with some new ideas.... and promptly found myself nearly 3 BI down at NL10... will review the hands tomorrow morning but fear it was as much my own badly timed 3bets and picking the wrong time to cbet/check the flop every time.

That said, the first half hour was nuts - several people at my tables were donk betting all in / check raising all in every other hand. I probably should have called off in one or two spots, but with nothing stronger than one pair hands or good draws it felt like it would have been needless high variance against players I'd chip away at.

I don't know what Sky have done recently, but people seem ready to gamble again at NL10...

Or perhaps the wider economy is genuinely getting better now and people are more happy and confident to spark off a few £10ers on the poker again!

Anyway, I got lucky in a pot against one of the maniacs when I hit a set with my KK and with that and chipping away at some weak tight players I somehow ended up a whole £1.20 when I called it a night... was genuinely a bit surprised at that!

Swog

In Response to Re: a little fish trying to out-swim the sharks...:

Well after an hour of watching a micro level video on pokertube, I fire up some tables to try and play with some new ideas.... and promptly found myself nearly 3 BI down at NL10... will review the hands tomorrow morning but fear it was as much my own badly timed 3bets and picking the wrong time to cbet/check the flop every time. That said, the first half hour was nuts - several people at my tables were donk betting all in / check raising all in every other hand. I probably should have called off in one or two spots, but with nothing stronger than one pair hands or good draws it felt like it would have been needless high variance against players I'd chip away at. I don't know what Sky have done recently, but people seem ready to gamble again at NL10... Or perhaps the wider economy is genuinely getting better now and people are more happy and confident to spark off a few £10ers on the poker again! Anyway, I got lucky in a pot against one of the maniacs when I hit a set with my KK and with that and chipping away at some weak tight players I somehow ended up a whole £1.20 when I called it a night... was genuinely a bit surprised at that!
Posted by shakinaces

I hope this wasn't about me lol.

In all seriousness, good luck mate. Seen you at the tables and identified you as a decent player and we even went to war a few times I was only having a flying visit on the site and hopefully when Uni finishes in June I can devote some serious time, like yourself, into playing NL10-20. See you on the tables over summer hopefully

shakinaces

In Response to Re: a little fish trying to out-swim the sharks...:

In Response to Re: a little fish trying to out-swim the sharks... : I hope this wasn't about me lol. In all seriousness, good luck mate. Seen you at the tables and identified you as a decent player and we even went to war a few times I was only having a flying visit on the site and hopefully when Uni finishes in June I can devote some serious time, like yourself, into playing NL10-20. See you on the tables over summer hopefully
Posted by Swog

Hi Swog, really enjoyed playing against you last night, was keeping me on my toes for sure and chucked up some interesting spots that gave me plenty of brain ache. There's no-one (especially not me) that will have notes on you being passive and I'd be surprised if many had you down as tight!

Good luck with the last few months of your Uni course, hope poker doesn't distract - as much for all the end of term parties as for the exams, one last blow out as a student is far more fun than grinding poker!!

shakinaces

Must remember to wear glasses

Just going over hands from last night and I recalled one particular hand that I played like the true fish I still am.

Had 4 tables going at the time, had a tricky decision on one which distracted me slightly, but noticed I'd picked up AA in the SB of another, happy days.

So I 3-bet my AA on auto-pilot and pick up two callers from the maniacs at the table, more happy days. Value bet a dry flop and get two calls, value bet the turn...

Then notice I've picked the wrong screen and am actually double barrelling A2o like a boss, with no pair no draw.

Thankfully for me it was the first hand I'd played that neither maniac had shoved / gone to showdown and I got away with it. Paying me off for the fact that I only picked up the BB on the table I actually had the aces.

What a numpty

ajs4385

My advice would be:

1) Forget about donkaments
2) Stop playing 10nl, rake is too high, 7.5% is ridiculous. £500 is plenty for 20nl (assuming your not prone to tilt or drunk)
3) Forget about poker points
4) Your only target should be to play the best you can, don't aim to make £x, the money will flow if your good enough.

77Chris91

^^^ Really gd advice.

Judging from a few of your posts in the clinic Shakin you seem like you would be comfortable at 20nl.

Try and forget about £ targets and set volume targets instead.      Playing well + volume = £££'s

Gl

chicknMelt

In Response to Re: a little fish trying to out-swim the sharks...:

My advice would be: 1) Forget about donkaments 2) Stop playing 10nl, rake is too high, 7.5% is ridiculous. £500 is plenty for 20nl (assuming your not prone to tilt or drunk) 3) Forget about poker points 4) Your only target should be to play the best you can, don't aim to make £x, the money will flow if your good enough.
Posted by ajs4385

whats wrong with donkaments?!

Swog

My exams finish on the 3rd June, which is exactly two weeks before i go to Vegas, so i'm thinking of creating a challenge for myself that goes something like the following:

Deposit $1,000 (~£620) which will be my "vegas poker bankroll" shall we say. Then I will cash out my money just before i go to Vegas, whether that be a profit or a loss, then maybe report back when I return from Las Vegas a millionaire or a broke fish lol.

shakinaces

Wow... so after another pretty terrible start to the night I'd clawed back to pretty much break even after two hours of total play and a power cut that took down my internet connection and lost all my tables... 

Then I get back online in some new seats and find myself in this hand vs a villain that was playing very aggressively and forced me to play super tight on this particular table...

No chance I was playing on after this - a sure sign from the poker gods that I should call it quits with my 2BI loss and come back another day!!

* can't post properly for some reason *

Pretty much rocked up with exactly the hand I thought, either a biggish ace or A2/A3 - I was happily loving life when the A hit the turn as it was pretty much the perfect card for where I was.

Took the decision to set mine rather than 3b because of his aggressive nature but I guess it got the better of me this time. If I 3b then lead the flop... nah stuff it, I'd still be called and it'd still all go in on the turn.

Next time!

liamboi11

I agree with ajs for most of what he said but defo take a few shots at mtts(through satellites for mains) when your winning comfortable at your chosen cash level I nice main ft could boost your roll massively

also I think i played againist you early last year when I was at 10nl u seemed to have solid game and defo capable of beating 10nl buddy gl.

shakinaces

In Response to Re: a little fish trying to out-swim the sharks...:

My advice would be: 1) Forget about donkaments 2) Stop playing 10nl, rake is too high, 7.5% is ridiculous. £500 is plenty for 20nl (assuming your not prone to tilt or drunk) 3) Forget about poker points 4) Your only target should be to play the best you can, don't aim to make £x, the money will flow if your good enough.
Posted by ajs4385

Hi ajs cheers for the post.

Your point 4 makes complete sense, I want to see £££ win, but the target isn't set amounts as such. The poker points I just see as a rough guide to how much I'm playing - seeing as the software doesn't allow me to track how many hands I'm playing.

My tilt (as per previous post) is to just jump out the game and go do something else so I think I'm OK on that front - really don't feel like I have NL10 (and below) nailed sufficiently to jump up to NL20.

Not really being a bankroll nit, just want to feel like I'm beating the majority of recs and lesser regs before making the jump.

shakinaces

In Response to Re: a little fish trying to out-swim the sharks...:

My advice would be: 1) Forget about donkaments 2) Stop playing 10nl, rake is too high, 7.5% is ridiculous. £500 is plenty for 20nl (assuming your not prone to tilt or drunk) 3) Forget about poker points 4) Your only target should be to play the best you can, don't aim to make £x, the money will flow if your good enough.
Posted by ajs4385

Hi ajs cheers for the post.

Your point 4 makes complete sense, I want to see £££ win, but the target isn't set amounts as such. The poker points I just see as a rough guide to how much I'm playing - seeing as the software doesn't allow me to track how many hands I'm playing.

My tilt (as per previous post) is to just jump out the game and go do something else so I think I'm OK on that front - really don't feel like I have NL10 (and below) nailed sufficiently to jump up to NL20.

Not really being a bankroll nit, just want to feel like I'm beating the majority of recs and lesser regs before making the jump.

CraigSG1

What's wrong with playing NL10? 

And as for forgetting about £'s, that is good advice. During my BR challenge I began to get obsessed with winning sessions and that hurt my play. I reassed, and concentrated on playing my game, my way. It worked wonders as I had the best month ever and not only that completed my challenge. 

shakinaces

Back on track tonight, a bit of a session before dinner then through the United game...

3.5BI up playing 4 tables and racked up 71pts to start the month.

Bankroll £503, would be nice if the next couple of sessions can build a bit of a cushion as mentally it'd be nice to hold above £500 and steadily push for the £1k mark.

Think I picked my spots quite well, but there are a couple of hands I need to try and dig out and query in the clinic. Having trouble posting hands on Opera and due to windows issues I can't get IE running on my laptop, so will have to be saved for lunch breaks or skives at work.

Had a look around for some coaching, someone to watch over a session and try to point out my biggest leaks. Biggest trouble is that most online coaches seem to charge to review a database of your hands as a large part of any session, so not sure it's a huge help on Sky with the limited capability of doing that. Will continue in the interim to navigate the free online videos and hope my BS radar only watches the more value-adding ones the whole way through.

LARSON7

Hi Shakin,

Don't waste money paying for coaching imo.

If you ever want to do a sweat session sometime, i'd be happy to watch you play and provide some feedback. And you are more than welcome to watch me play sometime if you feel it would be helpful.

Send me a mesg if it's something you want to do.

Slipwater

In Response to Re: a little fish trying to out-swim the sharks...:

Hi Shakin, Don't waste money paying for coaching imo. If you ever want to do a sweat session sometime, i'd be happy to watch you play and provide some feedback. And you are more than welcome to watch me play sometime if you feel it would be helpful. Send me a mesg if it's something you want to do.
Posted by LARSON7

That's a bit like a wannabe pop star taking advice from a one-hit wonder

LARSON7

The one and only?

hhyftrftdr

Gotta look at coaching as an investment. Yeah it might cost you X amount up front, but if it can win you Y amount over the next period (weeks, months) after it, then its possibly something worth looking at.

Not sure how useful it would be for 10nl, but if you look to move up the levels....

shakinaces

First things first.

51 pts earned... albeit not such a fair estimate of the quantity of hands I put in today.

Bankroll £518.36 after a bit of a rollercoaster

Swings

Seemed to be lots of nits and regs at every NL10 table that popeed up, so settled for action 5/5 and NL8 to start the night, 4 tables and not many points earned.

I lost probably £5-£6 early doors from being a bit too aggressive before toning it down to a more constructive level and I think was playing quite well... the river was getting the better of me though on numerous occasions and although I managed to get away cheaply in the main part, the money was dropping.

Swongs

So what better to do than decide to skip the regs and nits at NL10 and fire up two tables of NL20 and play mostly unknown names...

I will need to have a look back over some hands tomorrow and I accept that overall I played far tighter than I usually would, but I think bar one hand I held my own and still managed to sneak a few bluffs through.

Then it was my turn to be a dirty river rat when ending up all in on the turn, straight vs my set. Will try to add to clinic tomorrow but I pretty much butchered it and luckboxed - same as what went against me at the lower limits, just good for me that lady luck favoured me the time it helped the most.

Back to where I belong

Not sure I'll be back there very often though, maybe I picked bad tables, maybe the site just didn't have too many recs about tonight, either way I still have lots of learning to do at NL10 and below before thinking about more than the occasional dabble at higher limits.

Oddly, the first table I sat at broke as soon as one player left, literally left me sat on my own the hand after they left... can't think I've ever really encountered that at smaller buyins...

shakinaces

In Response to Re: a little fish trying to out-swim the sharks...:

Gotta look at coaching as an investment. Yeah it might cost you X amount up front, but if it can win you Y amount over the next period (weeks, months) after it, then its possibly something worth looking at. Not sure how useful it would be for 10nl, but if you look to move up the levels....
Posted by hhyftrftdr

I suppose my thinking was just to try and lose any of my worst leaks, to avoid being caught with my pants down when I do take a more concerted effort at NL20 (or above).  Dunno how sensible that is, but may give me a better platform to move on?  Perhaps the cost/benefit is more worthwhile after a solid number of hours / certain bankroll (ie if I hit £1k+ and am well rolled for NL20)

shakinaces

In Response to Re: a little fish trying to out-swim the sharks...:

Hi Shakin, Don't waste money paying for coaching imo. If you ever want to do a sweat session sometime, i'd be happy to watch you play and provide some feedback. And you are more than welcome to watch me play sometime if you feel it would be helpful. Send me a mesg if it's something you want to do.
Posted by LARSON7

LOL @ Slips response to this

Will ping a message across Larson.

shakinaces

Bankroll now £558.34 and racked my points for the month up to 228

Well, another day that started horrifically, not least after I was a disbeliver of a min 3bet BvB so chucked in a 4bet, hit top two pair and stacked off to bottom set.

Must remember to get my barings a bit on players before getting silly with anything other than premium hands!

I was playing well though in the main but the boards were just not running out kindly - flopping a set with aces but running out 4-straight/flush and being lucky not to be stacked, while more players that love to shove flops (90+ BB to win like 10BB after I've c-bet) seemed to be at the tables and dwindling my stacks.

Then things picked up, seemed to always be golden when choosing to semi-bluff or when to fold, getting some kind flops when 3-betting with mid hands and getting paid.

How to run golden - by Larson07

I also just watched about 5 minutes of Larson playing to see the software some of you guys use for watching sessions... doubled up first hand, picked up AA and a few more quid the next hand, another near double up with a flush then nice safe K-high flop from AK

This game is so easy

National time almost here!

Have run so good on this race over the years, normally cover 3 horses and have only ever had one year I failed to get a place and several winners (since I was 18 and could bet... too many years ago now!)

Therefore love trawling the stats for this weekend. This and Cheltenham are the only time I bet apart from when I get to blag a day at the track.

Wanted to stick some on Monbeg Dude at the start of the week when ladbrokes had them at 20s, but I am well and truly barred from their site. Looked to pop into a shop on Tuesday but by that point the odds had tumbled so kept my cash. Now looking as if it'll be favourite, unsurprising with the Royal connection. Still fancy it but may need to find a 'new' bookie to make it worth backing, get a free cash offer to boost the price.

Otherwise it's on to the rest of the shortlist and hoping that my 2nd and 3rd pick can be lucky.

Whatever anyone who is reading this is backing, hope it gives you a good run for your money at least!