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Can the RNG on all sites be programmed within a range of settings?

MaggiesdadMaggiesdad
edited October 2014 in Poker Chat
One for the techies.......

I was recently in a discussion with some live players and one of them brought up the usual "internet poker is rigged". However, it wasn't about any particular site but rather that the RNG on all sites can be set within a range and so some sites have it set more "action-orientated" than others, for want of a better phrase.

Is this possible?
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  • hhyftrftdrhhyftrftdr
    edited October 2014
    lol
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  • stuarty117stuarty117
    edited October 2014
    In Response to Can the RNG on all sites be programmed within a range of settings?:
    One for the techies....... I was recently in a discussion with some live players and one of them brought up the usual "internet poker is rigged". However, it wasn't about any particular site but rather that the RNG on all sites can be set within a range and so some sites have it set more "action-orientated" than others, for want of a better phrase. Is this possible?
    Posted by Maggiesdad
    How is this one for the techies lol. By suggesting the aboves suggests that you a or whoever is saying that online poker i rigged. 

    RNG = RANDOM NUMBER GENERATOR

    RANDOMRANDOMRANDOMRANDOMRANDOMRANDOMRANDOMRANDOMRANDOMRANDOM
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  • scotty77scotty77
    edited October 2014
    Live players say lots of nonsense about poker.

    A decent percentage will genuinely believe they have a lucky dealer and also an unlucky dealer.

    They will play certain hands cos they have been lucky for them.

    They will moan about losing with AA/KK the last couple of weeks.

    You can't reason with it tho.  They just can't see the difference of playing live and seeing 25 flops an hour and playing 3 tables online and seeing 200+.  And they also say stuff like well I make live FTs all the time but can never do it online.  They forget to mention that the live comps are 20/30 runners and online the comps are 10x the fields.
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  • CraigSG1CraigSG1
    edited October 2014
    No one. Ever. No computer program, person behind the screen etc etc can predict one thing.

    What a player does. A whole host of randomness then ensues.


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  • Tikay10Tikay10
    edited October 2014
    In Response to Can the RNG on all sites be programmed within a range of settings?:
    One for the techies....... I was recently in a discussion with some live players and one of them brought up the usual "internet poker is rigged". However, it wasn't about any particular site but rather that the RNG on all sites can be set within a range and so some sites have it set more "action-orientated" than others, for want of a better phrase. Is this possible?
    Posted by Maggiesdad
    Hi Mike.

    In short, "no". 

    By definition, random is random. You cannot set "random" to be somehow ordered. 
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  • MaggiesdadMaggiesdad
    edited October 2014
    Thank you for your responses.
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  • MaggiesdadMaggiesdad
    edited October 2014
    In Response to Re: Can the RNG on all sites be programmed within a range of settings?:
    lol
    Posted by hhyftrftdr
    Thank you for this particularly useful comment. Have you ever thought of becoming a teacher?
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  • SlipwaterSlipwater
    edited October 2014
    In Response to Re: Can the RNG on all sites be programmed within a range of settings?:
    In Response to Re: Can the RNG on all sites be programmed within a range of settings? : Thank you for this particularly useful comment. Have you ever thought of becoming a teacher?
    Posted by Maggiesdad
    To be fair to Malcolm's shorthand, your opening gambit was just a circular way of asking if online poker could be rigged, and there are enough of those threads...
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  • GELDYGELDY
    edited October 2014
    In Response to Re: Can the RNG on all sites be programmed within a range of settings?:
    In Response to Can the RNG on all sites be programmed within a range of settings? : Hi Mike. In short, "no".  By definition, random is random. You cannot set "random" to be somehow ordered. 
    Posted by Tikay10
    the long answer is "yes", there are settings (or more accurately seeds) that can be changed in some RNGs. However that cannot be used to change how play is rewarded. It just starts the random number generation from a particular spot. If a pseudo-RNG used the same seed every time a tournament started then the cards would always come out in the same order. Note that I have never seen that and this is an obvious problem to avoid. I would guess that if Sky uses an algorithmic RNG then they probably have some form of entropic seed to avoid any possibility of observable repeats.
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  • hhyftrftdrhhyftrftdr
    edited October 2014
    In Response to Re: Can the RNG on all sites be programmed within a range of settings?:
    In Response to Re: Can the RNG on all sites be programmed within a range of settings? : Thank you for this particularly useful comment. Have you ever thought of becoming a teacher?
    Posted by Maggiesdad
    Silly Q gets silly A.
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  • QuixlaQuixla
    edited October 2014
    The simple answer is yes.  And they are set to function within preset parameters.

    A poker RNG will only have to work on a range of 1 - 52, where as a Roulette RNG would be working a range if 1 - 37.  Then a bingo RNG, well you get the picture.

    Technically it is possible to do as you have described, ie tighten the range up so that only cards higher than a 9 are dealt, ie action flops.  But it would be hard to see who would benefit.

    I have had one experience on line where I believe the RNG had been adjusted.

    A couple if years ago 888 had a straight flush promotion, where everyone who hit a straight flush over a particular weekend qualified for a freeroll, without playing any real volume I managed to hit 3  and witnessed several others.

    Could have simply been coincidence  but I  excluded myself permanently from that site  simply because I no longer trusted it .


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  • unknown_usernameunknown_username
    edited October 2014
    In Response to Can the RNG on all sites be programmed within a range of settings?:
    One for the techies....... I was recently in a discussion with some live players and one of them brought up the usual "internet poker is rigged". However, it wasn't about any particular site but rather that the RNG on all sites can be set within a range and so some sites have it set more "action-orientated" than others, for want of a better phrase. Is this possible?
    Posted by Maggiesdad
    RNG's are programmed to work within limits. A  poker RNG  can only choose from 52 possible options and then after the first choice is made 51 options, after the second choice 50 options...  if this were not the case then the computer could choose, for example, the ace of hearts five times in succession....  which if it were truly random at some point it inevitably would... each time a selection is made that selection has to be removed from the list of options for the next selection and cannot be selected again.

    This is not the case for an RNG for dice which can choose from the same numbers every time.

    As it is programmed to only operate within certain limits it cannot be considered to be "truly" random and given that I've already been banned for expressing my opinion on sky so called RNG I will not say what I really think of it!!! 
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  • DTWBANDITDTWBANDIT
    edited October 2014
    In Response to Can the RNG on all sites be programmed within a range of settings?:
    One for the techies....... I was recently in a discussion with some live players and one of them brought up the usual "internet poker is rigged". However, it wasn't about any particular site but rather that the RNG on all sites can be set within a range and so some sites have it set more "action-orientated" than others, for want of a better phrase. Is this possible?
    Posted by Maggiesdad

        end of the day mate you have a machine which works by using 01

       rng is just 3 letters that make up 3 words like SnG AND a bit like 3 card brag card games are a game of chance wether Live OR On-Line 

      Mic
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  • FortunatusFortunatus
    edited October 2014
    The answer to your question in yes.

    The word random in RNG means that you cannot predict the outcome and that every outcome is possible, that's not to say that an RNG couldn't be programmed to make some outcomes more probable than others.

    That's just simple maths.

    The whole question of 'is online poker rigged' is a bit of a boring one though.  Sites have their RNG's audited and verified and it's just not worth their time in making it anything other than a fair and random deal.  There are so many pairs of eyes on the data that if anything could ever be proved with hard evidence that an RNG was fixed, then the reputation of the site (and online poker in general) would be destroyed.

    The good sites make a decent amount of money, without needing to get greedy.
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  • Tikay10Tikay10
    edited October 2014
    In Response to Re: Can the RNG on all sites be programmed within a range of settings?:
    The answer to your question in yes. The word random in RNG means that you cannot predict the outcome and that every outcome is possible, that's not to say that an RNG couldn't be programmed to make some outcomes more probable than others. That's just simple maths. The whole question of 'is online poker rigged' is a bit of a boring one though.  Sites have their RNG's audited and verified and it's just not worth their time in making it anything other than a fair and random deal.  There are so many pairs of eyes on the data that if anything could ever be proved with hard evidence that an RNG was fixed, then the reputation of the site (and online poker in general) would be destroyed. The good sites make a decent amount of money, without needing to get greedy.
    Posted by Fortunatus
    Hi Lee,

    There have been, down the years, mercifully few examples of poker sites messing about, though Absolute Poker, for example, deffo pulled some dirty tricks.

    I can't ever recall a single credible example of ANY Online Poker Site messing with the RNG though. Why would they? There is nothing to gain. 
     
    In modern society, when things go wrong, people look to blame others. So a small minority of losing poker players blame the RNG. I don't know what excuse they use when they lose "Live", though! 
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  • QuixlaQuixla
    edited October 2014
    In Response to Re: Can the RNG on all sites be programmed within a range of settings?:
    In Response to Re: Can the RNG on all sites be programmed within a range of settings? : Hi Lee, There have been, down the years, mercifully few examples of poker sites messing about, though Absolute Poker, for example, deffo pulled some dirty tricks. I can't ever recall a single credible example of ANY Online Poker Site messing with the RNG though. Why would they? There is nothing to gain.    In modern society, when things go wrong, people look to blame others. So a small minority of losing poker players blame the RNG. I don't know what excuse they use when they lose "Live", though! 
    Posted by Tikay10

    Losing live = Runbad!
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  • Tikay10Tikay10
    edited October 2014
    In Response to Re: Can the RNG on all sites be programmed within a range of settings?:
    In Response to Re: Can the RNG on all sites be programmed within a range of settings? : Losing live = Runbad!
    Posted by Quixla
    Ha! Very good.

    Nowhere to hide, nobody to blame.

    That'll be "lol-Live players" then. As opposed to "Lol-Online" players.
     
    When we see "all live players are lol-bad", (or "lol French/Spanish/Russian" players) we know we are reading the ramblings of someone detached from the real world.   
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  • CHILLIECHILLIE
    edited October 2014
    So reading these posts some say no some say yes cant both be right surely,in my time with online poker ive never ever thought it was rigged in anyones favour but however i do believe the rng is set to create action among players, but then saying that  rng can not guess what players are going to do with any 2 cards,debate would rage on for many years on this topic.
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  • VespaPXVespaPX
    edited October 2014
    In Response to Re: Can the RNG on all sites be programmed within a range of settings?:
    So reading these posts some say no some say yes cant both be right surely,in my time with online poker ive never ever thought it was rigged in anyones favour but however i do believe the rng is set to create action among players, but then saying that  rng can not guess what players are going to do with any 2 cards,debate would rage on for many years on this topic.
    Posted by CHILLIE
    THIS
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  • hhyftrftdrhhyftrftdr
    edited October 2014
    In Response to Re: Can the RNG on all sites be programmed within a range of settings?:
    So reading these posts some say no some say yes cant both be right surely,in my time with online poker ive never ever thought it was rigged in anyones favour but however i do believe the rng is set to create action among players, but then saying that  rng can not guess what players are going to do with any 2 cards,debate would rage on for many years on this topic.
    Posted by CHILLIE
    It's poker, the action creates itself. The game, by it's nature, is an action game.
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  • FortunatusFortunatus
    edited October 2014
    The question was 'CAN' an RNG be set within a range.  So the answer has to be yes.

    If the question was 'ARE' any RNG's set within a range, then my answer would be no.

    I'm definitely not suggesting online poker is rigged or that sites mess with the RNG.  That would just send my paranoia out of control :)

    As I said, and Tony agreed with, why would they ?  Just not a huge amount in it for them.
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  • Tikay10Tikay10
    edited October 2014
    In Response to Re: Can the RNG on all sites be programmed within a range of settings?:
    The question was 'CAN' an RNG be set within a range.  So the answer has to be yes. If the question was 'ARE' any RNG's set within a range, then my answer would be no. I'm definitely not suggesting online poker is rigged or that sites mess with the RNG.  That would just send my paranoia out of control :) As I said, and Tony agreed with, why would they ?  Just not a huge amount in it for them.
    Posted by Fortunatus
    Well we are getting into semantics now, but to me, by definition, if you tried to programme a RNG "within a range",then it would not be Random, would it?
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  • hhyftrftdrhhyftrftdr
    edited October 2014
    In Response to Re: Can the RNG on all sites be programmed within a range of settings?:
    The question was 'CAN' an RNG be set within a range.  So the answer has to be yes. If the question was 'ARE' any RNG's set within a range, then my answer would be no. I'm definitely not suggesting online poker is rigged or that sites mess with the RNG.  That would just send my paranoia out of control :) As I said, and Tony agreed with, why would they ?  Just not a huge amount in it for them.
    Posted by Fortunatus
    How do you know this?

    Surely any tampering with an RNG suddenly means it isn't an RNG.....
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  • Chris_McChris_Mc
    edited October 2014
    IT might be a SMTCMARNG.

    slightly modified to create more action random number generator.

    I have seen these on virtual monopaly and buckaroo.
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  • DTWBANDITDTWBANDIT
    edited October 2014
    In Response to Re: Can the RNG on all sites be programmed within a range of settings?:
    In Response to Re: Can the RNG on all sites be programmed within a range of settings? : Losing live = Runbad!
    Posted by Quixla

      N1 runBAD= GOOD
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  • DTWBANDITDTWBANDIT
    edited October 2014
    In Response to Re: Can the RNG on all sites be programmed within a range of settings?:
    IT might be a SMTCMARNG. slightly modified to create more action random number generator. I have seen these on virtual monopaly and buckaroo.
    Posted by Chris_Mc

      Played monopoly as a kid me 1st board game (aged 7) i was the Banker 
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  • GELDYGELDY
    edited October 2014
    random means unpredictable one by one - but doesn't mean that the distribution has to be continuous or discrete uniform. it could give twice as many A as any other card and still be random. however that RNG would not be fit for online poker!
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  • Chris_McChris_Mc
    edited October 2014
    Love monoply.

    I think everyone plays it diffrent... same as poker.

    Every family puts a twist on the rules.. small things.

    Like, all utility payments and and water payments go too free parking. If u land on free parking u get the money.

    i must the car... if i do not get set peice the game will not go ahead. Me be8ng the husband and the father this is rule no 1. 


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  • somersomer
    edited October 2014
    In Response to Re: Can the RNG on all sites be programmed within a range of settings?:
    The answer to your question in yes. The word random in RNG means that you cannot predict the outcome and that every outcome is possible, that's not to say that an RNG couldn't be programmed to make some outcomes more probable than others. That's just simple maths. The whole question of 'is online poker rigged' is a bit of a boring one though.  Sites have their RNG's audited and verified and it's just not worth their time in making it anything other than a fair and random deal.  There are so many pairs of eyes on the data that if anything could ever be proved with hard evidence that an RNG was fixed, then the reputation of the site (and online poker in general) would be destroyed. The good sites make a decent amount of money, without needing to get greedy.
    Posted by Fortunatus

    Very true - in Sky’s case it was 5 years ago.
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  • DTWBANDITDTWBANDIT
    edited October 2014
    In Response to Re: Can the RNG on all sites be programmed within a range of settings?:
    Love monoply. I think everyone plays it diffrent... same as poker. Every family puts a twist on the rules.. small things. Like, all utility payments and and water payments go too free parking. If u land on free parking u get the money. i must the car... if i do not get set peice the game will not go ahead. Me be8ng the husband and the father this is rule no 1. 
    Posted by Chris_Mc

       i was always the car as well if they asked for a loan i said NO and took there property cards, 1st game i learnt how to play (which me mum taught me i was 5) was GIN RUMMY best thing she ever taught me after that i had 3 board games from 7-9 monopoly, RISK & Game Of Life, finished 1st 2 still playing the 3rd ONE as its never ending

       
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