importantly, because of recent events, skypoker are no longer giving an incentive to play as a group. they do not really have many sensible options. sorted it out well, skypoker. Posted by aussie09
This is spot on imo. Whatever the wheres or whyfors of the activity/rumours/intentions surrounding the recent case, one of the incentives for players to play/compete as a group, in whichever way this manifests itself, has been removed.
I don't see how this should impact individual prizes though. Let's see what comes of it, hopefully it remains supported, but as Trev said this change may also remove an incentive for admins to post tables etc and if you lose the cross-tournament competition element you're not left with much else and I would suspect numbers may decline.
Sorry you felt one of my contributions was pointless hhy, I thought it was one of the facts (amongst others)that shone an interesting angle into all the speculation. However, I don't want Geldy coming along and telling us to get a room again, so I'll happily leave it there.
Hope the community Monday continues as successfully as it has done until now.
Tikay you seem to be a man of the people, by that I mean to me it appears you have the forum and its players best interests at heart. could it be that sky, in its current transitional period, didn't realise the importance of these games, in there current format, to the community.
Would it be possible that with the backlash to said changes a sudden change of heart by The Man could be possible? Im confident in saying the number of posts do not represent the number of people who concur with them, perhaps a good old fashioned show of hands by way of a petition?
Failing this I will have to resort to tactics employed by my hippy parents and organise a protest!! ; )
In Response to Re: Forum DTD changes : normally, i don't play on mondays so i neither choose to play or choose not to play. therefore, with no axe to grind, it seems like a fair and well thought through solution. there is no longer a reward for one group of players at the expense of another group. every player now benefits instead. importantly, because of recent events, skypoker are no longer giving an incentive to play as a group. they do not really have many sensible options. sorted it out well, skypoker. Posted by aussie09
The weekly prizes, Rob are not for teams, it's for the individual so anyone can win that.
As far as I'm aware the only team prizes go to top 5 at the end of the month (which TBF could be scrapped), used to be something like a mini seat or something no biggie... it's the weekly prize going that most are grumbling about, as that had zero bearing on team play.
In Response to Re: Forum DTD changes : It was looked at Rob, but on balance, it was decided against on that occasion. It's nice to win it, but I would guess it is hard to find evidence that it generated any, or many, additional players. Posted by Tikay10
the £1k UKOPS XII winner's package didn't generate any more entries? surely not.
for the most recent UKOPS no longer offering any headline prize was such an own goal. for skypoker to go to all that trouble to arrange UKOPS XIII too.
In Response to Re: Forum DTD changes : This is spot on imo. Whatever the wheres or whyfors of the activity/rumours/intentions surrounding the recent case, one of the incentives for players to play/compete as a group, in whichever way this manifests itself, has been removed. I don't see how this should impact individual prizes though. Let's see what comes of it, hopefully it remains supported, but as Trev said this change may also remove an incentive for admins to post tables etc and if you lose the cross-tournament competition element you're not left with much else and I would suspect numbers may decline. Sorry you felt one of my contributions was pointless hhy, I thought it was one of the facts (amongst others)that shone an interesting angle into all the speculation. However, I don't want Geldy coming along and telling us to get a room again, so I'll happily leave it there. Hope the community Monday continues as successfully as it has done until now. Posted by bbMike
It was more the insinuation of the question, I'm sure you know what I mean. But Sky, through Tikay, have confirmed the changes were nothing to do with budgets or anything, so we can all make up our own conclusions as to why the prizes have disappeared.
Agree with plenty of what you say above. Wouldn't blame Sky in the slightest for discarding the team prizes, but feel the individual ones are worth keeping. It gives that added extra incentive each week, on top of the all important bragging rights And as you say, some of the behind the scenes admin stuff might suffer due to these changes, which then could have a very negative snowball effect.
I think Sky obviously have good intentions by removing the rake, but I genuinely believe that should you ask the 100 or so people that play it week in week out if they preferred rake free DTD or the usual prizes, I'd wager nearly everyone would plump for the latter.
In Response to Re: Forum DTD changes : The weekly prizes, Rob are not for teams, it's for the individual so anyone can win that. As far as I'm aware the only team prizes go to top 5 at the end of the month (which TBF could be scrapped), used to be something like a mini seat or something no biggie... it's the weekly prize going that most are grumbling about, as that had zero bearing on team play. Posted by samantha25
hi sam,
i might be wrong in talking about the existence of team prizes, i thought they were given. i agree that individual prizes could have continued. my point is solely to do with skypoker having little choice because of what happened.
In Response to Re: Forum DTD changes : the £1k UKOPS XII winner's package didn't generate any more entries? surely not. for the most recent UKOPS no longer offering any headline prize was such an own goal. for skypoker to go to all that trouble to arrange UKOPS XIII too. oh well. Posted by aussie09
Well I'm just guessing Rob, I don't see the metrics, but it would be very hard to establish whether it did or not.
What I can say is that if you run a Leaderboard as well & efficiently as you did last time, I can arrange a Leaderboard Prize or two, though it would be more modest than a £1,000 Seat. Maybe a trophy or two would be better? Main Event winners already get a solid something Bracelet thing.
I don't think many people were aware that the 'team prize' structure had already been discussed by j3ono and agreed by Sky. It was posted up but I believe the thread has gone. He was going to run a 6-monthly freeroll for the top 24 team point scorers and winning team captains of a month got an additional pick. The plan was to have then a game where 30-40 DTD team regs would play a one off game for decent (seat) prizes on the FT. Would make a good rail and would encourage independents who played to get involved with a 'team'. Shame we didn't get to try this out. Seems as though the concept of teams is under pressure and perhaps with the connotations of teams in this game, rightly so.
In Response to Re: Forum DTD changes : Well I'm just guessing Rob, I don't see the metrics, but it would be very hard to establish whether it did or not. What I can say is that if you run a Leaderboard as well & efficiently as you did last time, I can arrange a Leaderboard Prize or two, though it would be more modest than a £1,000 Seat. Maybe a trophy or two would be better? Main Event winners already get a solid something Bracelet thing. Posted by Tikay10
that would be good.
i look at it from two viewpoints. as a player, i am not really that interested in a bracelet. in fact, i would be embarrassed to show any non-poker person. and would never wear one. i would enter more games if there was something a significant value to win over and above the normal payouts.
from skypoker's viewpoint, i would think that i had failed big time if i couldn't devise an incentive scheme that attracted more profit for the business than it cost. i would have failed big time if i didnt even employ an incentive scheme.
the home page on my browser has a banner for sky tv offering £1,200 if i introduce 6 friends. imagine, if they said, "let's not bother with such an incentive. people will sign up in great volumes without the campaign."
sky.com and skypoker.com must share the same thinking.
Tikay you seem to be a man of the people, by that I mean to me it appears you have the forum and its players best interests at heart. could it be that sky, in its current transitional period, didn't realise the importance of these games, in there current format, to the community. Would it be possible that with the backlash to said changes a sudden change of heart by The Man could be possible? Im confident in saying the number of posts do not represent the number of people who concur with them, perhaps a good old fashioned show of hands by way of a petition? Failing this I will have to resort to tactics employed by my hippy parents and organise a protest!! ; ) Posted by LmfaoAllin
A change of heart is possible, yes, nothing is set in stone, and it would need to be done a little differently.
For now, best to let things settle down for a while before further changes are made.
Please understand I don't make these decisions, I have no power, authority, clout or shout. I just try to explain to the Business how the players think, and equally, try and explain to players what the Business is thinking.
In Response to Re: Forum DTD changes : hi sam, i might be wrong in talking about the existence of team prizes, i thought they were given. i agree that individual prizes could have continued. my point is solely to do with skypoker having little choice because of what happened. Posted by aussie09
Yeah the weekly always about the IND sweets, when that hhy bloke wins every other week he doesn't even split any winnings from his free seat with the team, the tight g1t (maybe prizes should be banned after all haha).
Dunno why I'm moaning I am constantly chitness in it and never win prizes, but I can see the appeal to entice new/old players with the gimmick. Not sure 50p off will have the same lure....
In Response to Re: Forum DTD changes : Yeah the weekly always about the IND sweets, when that hhy bloke wins every other week he doesn't even split any winnings from his free seat with the team, the tight g1t (maybe prizes should be banned after all haha). Dunno why I'm moaning I am constantly chitness in it and never win prizes, but I can see the appeal to entice new/old players with the gimmick. Not sure 50p off will have the same lure.... Posted by samantha25
well, i think you should get a prize for being beautiful.
In Response to Re: Forum DTD changes : A change of heart is possible, yes, nothing is set in stone, and it would need to be done a little differently. For now, best to let things settle down for a while before further changes are made. Please understand I don't make these decisions, I have no power, authority, clout or shout. I just try to explain to the Business how the players think, and equally, try and explain to players what the Business is thinking. Posted by Tikay10
Ah coolio... I expect us regs will back it no matter what, it would be nice to see SKY reevalute the situation in the near future due to the prizes making it more competitive for the stand alone player
In Response to Re: Forum DTD changes : Wp Sam. And Ice Tiger, if not for the recent event, why do you think the prizes have been suddenly scrapped? I can't think of any other reason, and this is reinforced by the fact that no other forum comps are having their bonuses binned. But open to other suggestions as to why. Edit - I'd have thought if Sky were reviewing the whole process of prize giveaways, DTD would be the last one touched due to its weekly popularity. Just my 2 cents. Posted by hhyftrftdr
If you read my comment, you said that we were all suffering because of two people. I said that this is not entirely true. There have been incidents before & no punishment has been handed out to all players. This is different because one player broke the protocol & posted it on this Forum & several other player waded in here & elsewhere. If he had just reported it through the proper channels and everyone had let SKY take the appropriate action then this wouldn't have happened.
That player & those who then waded in on it are the ones that have damaged DTD.
Maybe SKY will relent and allow the community to continue given time.
In Response to Re: Forum DTD changes : A change of heart is possible, yes, nothing is set in stone, and it would need to be done a little differently. For now, best to let things settle down for a while before further changes are made. Please understand I don't make these decisions, I have no power, authority, clout or shout. I just try to explain to the Business how the players think, and equally, try and explain to players what the Business is thinking. Posted by Tikay10
I certainly hope so Tikay , i just feel Michael and scouse have been a tadge harshly treated in all this , hope evreything works out for all
In Response to Re: Forum DTD changes : If you read my comment, you said that we were all suffering because of two people. I said that this is not entirely true. There have been incidents before & no punishment has been handed out to all players. This is different because one player broke the protocol & posted it on this Forum & several other player waded in here & elsewhere. If he had just reported it through the proper channels and everyone had let SKY take the appropriate action then this wouldn't have happened. That player & those who then waded in on it are the ones that have damaged DTD. Maybe SKY will relent and allow the community to continue given time. Posted by Ice_Tiger
Probably pointless us discussing it, as we are poles apart in our opinions. However, trying to claim that people who did nothing wrong are partially to blame for damaging DTD is beyond absurd.
DTD was damaged by 2 people, and 2 people only, and they are now both banned from the site.
But I think the Monday night community is more than strong enough to show that DTD can still prosper despite everything, and I hope Sky reconsider their prize stance in due course.
In Response to Re: Forum DTD changes : If you read my comment, you said that we were all suffering because of two people. I said that this is not entirely true. There have been incidents before & no punishment has been handed out to all players. This is different because one player broke the protocol & posted it on this Forum & several other player waded in here & elsewhere. If he had just reported it through the proper channels and everyone had let SKY take the appropriate action then this wouldn't have happened. That player & those who then waded in on it are the ones that have damaged DTD. Maybe SKY will relent and allow the community to continue given time. Posted by Ice_Tiger
Steve, never had a crossed word with you and I think looking in, yr helpful and seem like a sensible bloke.
I tried to stay clear of the "incident" debate since it happened, as I feel justice was served and no need to dwell.
The reason I was so vocal on the subject was due to the fact 1 of the 2 parties were still active in the community and 1 was banned, I saw the evidence and I saw the admission... so OFC I wanted equal measures. Do I believe it was a one off? yes maybe, do I think it was because he hated the person he did it against? 100%... which makes it clear this isn't anything to do with us all.
Yet by writing posts like this you look like you are backing yr capo who admitted cheating, yet blaming the people who took a stance... what he did was wrong, and now we all lose out because of this... but it's our fault yeah?! just sigh
In Response to Re: Forum DTD changes : Probably pointless us discussing it, as we are poles apart in our opinions. However, trying to claim that people who did nothing wrong are partially to blame for damaging DTD is beyond absurd. DTD was damaged by 2 people, and 2 people only, and they are now both banned from the site. But I think the Monday night community is more than strong enough to show that DTD can still prosper despite everything, and I hope Sky reconsider their prize stance in due course. Posted by hhyftrftdr
You may try to distance yourself from responsibility but if the incident had been reported through the proper channels and people like yourself had kept your nose out of it then this wouldn't have happened.
You can choose to think what you will if that keeps your conscience clear.
In Response to Re: Forum DTD changes : Steve, never had a crossed word with you and I think looking in yr helpful and seem like a sensible bloke. I tried to stay clear of the "incident" debate since it happened, as I feel justice was served and no need to dwell. The reason I was so vocal on the subject was due to the fact 1 of the 2 parties were still active in the community and 1 was banned, I saw the evidence and I saw the admission... so OFC I wanted equal measures. Do I believe it was a one off? yes maybe, do I think it was because he hated the person he did it against? 100%... which makes it clear this isn't anything to do with us all. Yet by writing posts like this you look like you are backing yr capo who admitted cheating, yet blaming the people who took a stance... what he did was wrong, and now we all lose out because of this... but it's our fault yeah?! just sigh Posted by samantha25
Nothing to do with the incident & that shouldn't be discussed.
I believe that it is the fact that people waded in & didn't let SKY deal with matters in private that has caused this blow to DTD. There have been several people banned before but it was done privately & no-one else had to suffer. This time, some people took to thei keyboards to air their views in public, which is against SKY rules (hence, why I will not air mine on that matter). I believe that it is largely down to you & others who couldn't give SKY the time they needed that we have all had to suffer, particularly all the people who have given their time freely & tirelessly for many years.
In Response to Re: Forum DTD changes : You may try to distance yourself from responsibility but if the incident had been reported through the proper channels and people like yourself had kept your nose out of it then this wouldn't have happened. You can choose to think what you will if that keeps your conscience clear. Posted by Ice_Tiger
It was, and 1 was banned the other remained active... so DH says, it was reported 6 weeks prior so why it took so long is beyond me. Unless it was a case of bury it in the sand Personally I think if not for the social media show DH would still be playing the site, so yes... I for one am happy I spoke up. Or are you saying just cos you detest someone it's ok and we should all just sit back and accept that?
The initial act was carried out by 2 individuals but would that alone have resulted in this? Very unlikely imo.
This is not down to 1 act of collusion that took place in a team game, it's down to the total circus that ensued all over the internet afterwards. Whether you agree with the way it was dealt with on various other sites/forums or not, that's another matter, but I think it's pretty clear that it's this part that has caused this change
In Response to Re: Forum DTD changes : You may try to distance yourself from responsibility but if the incident had been reported through the proper channels and people like yourself had kept your nose out of it then this wouldn't have happened. You can choose to think what you will if that keeps your conscience clear. Posted by Ice_Tiger
My conscience is very clear, thanks.
I think if someone colluded against you, then tried to implicate you in the affair, you'd be pretty peeved no? So no sympathy from me whatsoever. Indeed, and as you say, if he'd gone through the proper channels initially then the outcome might have been much different. But he didn't, choosing instead to try and lie himself out of the hole he had dug.
And for the record, I did mostly keep out of it. Plenty of times I could've joined in but abstained. The 'If....' thread was particularly hard to keep out of, with people incorrectly saying the allegations were ''baseless'' and ''unfounded''.
The only people responsible for 2 people being banned for collusion, are the 2 people involved in said collusion. I'm amazed you are trying to deflect blame from the culprits.
I'm gonna (try!) not say anything else on the matter, as it's going over old ground and I think it's time we all moved on.
I hope Sky look at the prizes thing in due course, but myself and others will continue to support Michael's great competition weekly, and I thank the people involved who make it happen every Monday.
In Response to Re: Forum DTD changes : Nothing to do with the incident & that shouldn't be discussed. I believe that it is the fact that people waded in & didn't let SKY deal with matters in private that has caused this blow to DTD. There have been several people banned before but it was done privately & no-one else had to suffer. This time, some people took to thei keyboards to air their views in public, which is against SKY rules (hence, why I will not air mine on that matter). I believe that it is largely down to you & others who couldn't give SKY the time they needed that we have all had to suffer, particularly all the people who have given their time freely & tirelessly for many years. Posted by Ice_Tiger
Thank you for blaming me for ruining DTD for everyone, have you blamed DH at all? oh no, it wouldn't be his fault would it.
Sorry people that I thought it was wrong, to not only collude v someone, then lie that it was a set up.
+1 to Steve The initial act was carried out by 2 individuals but would that alone have resulted in this? Very unlikely imo. This is not down to 1 act of collusion that took place in a team game, it's down to the total circus that ensued all over the internet afterwards. Whether you agree with the way it was dealt with on various other sites/forums or not, that's another matter, but I think it's pretty clear that it's this part that has caused this change Posted by Lambert180
There was a circus Paul because DH was sending stupid PM's to anyone that would listen accusing hhf and outlaws of having a 4yr grudge v him, when everyone knows we've not even been together a year. If DH had just said yes i did it end of (he did on sky but retracted) then none of this would have happened. Meh carry on blaming us tho if you like.
Comments
Would it be possible that with the backlash to said changes a sudden change of heart by The Man could be possible?
Im confident in saying the number of posts do not represent the number of people who concur with them, perhaps a good old fashioned show of hands by way of a petition?
Failing this I will have to resort to tactics employed by my hippy parents and organise a protest!! ; )
for the most recent UKOPS no longer offering any headline prize was such an own goal. for skypoker to go to all that trouble to arrange UKOPS XIII too.
oh well.
Agree with plenty of what you say above. Wouldn't blame Sky in the slightest for discarding the team prizes, but feel the individual ones are worth keeping. It gives that added extra incentive each week, on top of the all important bragging rights And as you say, some of the behind the scenes admin stuff might suffer due to these changes, which then could have a very negative snowball effect.
I think Sky obviously have good intentions by removing the rake, but I genuinely believe that should you ask the 100 or so people that play it week in week out if they preferred rake free DTD or the usual prizes, I'd wager nearly everyone would plump for the latter.
hi sam,
i might be wrong in talking about the existence of team prizes, i thought they were given. i agree that individual prizes could have continued. my point is solely to do with skypoker having little choice because of what happened.
What I can say is that if you run a Leaderboard as well & efficiently as you did last time, I can arrange a Leaderboard Prize or two, though it would be more modest than a £1,000 Seat. Maybe a trophy or two would be better? Main Event winners already get a solid something Bracelet thing.
i look at it from two viewpoints. as a player, i am not really that interested in a bracelet. in fact, i would be embarrassed to show any non-poker person. and would never wear one. i would enter more games if there was something a significant value to win over and above the normal payouts.
from skypoker's viewpoint, i would think that i had failed big time if i couldn't devise an incentive scheme that attracted more profit for the business than it cost. i would have failed big time if i didnt even employ an incentive scheme.
the home page on my browser has a banner for sky tv offering £1,200 if i introduce 6 friends. imagine, if they said, "let's not bother with such an incentive. people will sign up in great volumes without the campaign."
sky.com and skypoker.com must share the same thinking.
... and back to the point ...
well sorted skypoker.
well done michael and scouse_red.
Maybe SKY will relent and allow the community to continue given time.
DTD was damaged by 2 people, and 2 people only, and they are now both banned from the site.
But I think the Monday night community is more than strong enough to show that DTD can still prosper despite everything, and I hope Sky reconsider their prize stance in due course.
You can choose to think what you will if that keeps your conscience clear.
I think if someone colluded against you, then tried to implicate you in the affair, you'd be pretty peeved no? So no sympathy from me whatsoever. Indeed, and as you say, if he'd gone through the proper channels initially then the outcome might have been much different. But he didn't, choosing instead to try and lie himself out of the hole he had dug.
And for the record, I did mostly keep out of it. Plenty of times I could've joined in but abstained. The 'If....' thread was particularly hard to keep out of, with people incorrectly saying the allegations were ''baseless'' and ''unfounded''.
The only people responsible for 2 people being banned for collusion, are the 2 people involved in said collusion. I'm amazed you are trying to deflect blame from the culprits.
I hope Sky look at the prizes thing in due course, but myself and others will continue to support Michael's great competition weekly, and I thank the people involved who make it happen every Monday.
Please keep on topic