What's wrong with this site?

unknown_username · May 2011

I've played here for over 2 years and in the main I've enjoyed it. I've had upswings and downswings and that's to be expected. The community is great - probably the best.

Some months ago I sent a PM to Tikay saying that I felt something had changed and that it concerned me. What I was seeing at the tables just didn't seem to make sense. There were just too many long shots coming in. It seemed that the worse you played a hand the more the rewards were. I never got a reply to that PM. That's OK, I understand the man's position.

I became interested in what was happening, or certainly appeared to be happening from my view. I had an awful run for a time and then it came good for a time. But good or bad I still felt uncomfortable with what I was seeing. Sometimes I was on the good side of the variance and sometimes I was on the bad side. There's been a lot of discussion in area51 regarding RNG's and the like and mostly it was both informative and interesting. Questions I felt should have been answered by the management were ignored, as they were by the AGCC and TST when I emailed them.

I still see things that make me wonder if all is well at Sky Poker. There certainly appears to be a tendency to reward bad play, again from my view of things. I know that a lot of folk won't agree with me and I respect their view and I hope I have always reacted appropriately when I have disagreed with them. I still hold the view that something isn't quite right. Of course I have no proof that what I think is correct - I don't think it would be possible to prove anything even if I tried, and so I can only go with my instincts based on my time in this game and my experience, telling me it's wrong.

Over the last few weeks I have been unhappy playing on Sky. I won't bore you with why, it's my opinion and I hope you will respect that. Tonight I said to myself I'll have one last go and see what happens - it wasn't pretty. I will post my final hand on here with the villain's name removed as an example of what I seem to encounter all too often on here. I know that one hand is meaningless but for me it's just the last in a long line of ''coincidences'' that have spoiled for me, what was my poker home for the last 2 years.

I won't be playing on Sky although I most certainly will be playing elsewhere. Please don't regard this as an ''I'm off - see you tomorrow'' post. I've thought long and hard over this and I should play where I feel comfortable not where I am constantly suspicious of the outcomes. I will still be hanging around the fantastic people in area51 - you're the best on the site, no matter what the sensible people say, so I will still post from time to time and as I always say - be careful because I'm always watching always taking note.

Anyway that hand - feel free to criticise. I knew he had hit on the river but to be honest I couldn't be bothered to fold it. I sharked the guy and he is a serious loser - in the thousands- and I know someone will say we want these players. The problem is on here they hit far too often and when like me you only play mtt's, you meet these drawing machines all the time, and when they keep hitting then your tournament is over. I prefer to have a slightly better run for my money elsewhere.

PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalancexxxxxxSmall blind 10.0010.001970.00BAD_BLEETBig blind 20.0030.001980.00 Your hole cards88 elsadogRaise 60.0090.001940.00TONY509Fold SAXX1Call 60.00150.002580.00chelski007Call 60.00210.003320.00xxxxxCall 50.00260.001920.00BAD_BLEETCall 40.00300.001940.00Flop 342 xxxxxCheck BAD_BLEETCheck elsadogBet 300.00600.001640.00SAXX1Fold chelski007Fold xxxxxCall 300.00900.001620.00BAD_BLEETFold Turn 6 xxxxxCheck elsadogBet 900.001800.00740.00xxxxxCall 900.002700.00720.00River Q xxxxxAll-in 720.003420.000.00elsadogCall 720.004140.0020.00xxxxxxShowQ8 elsadogShow88 xxxxxxWinPair of Queens4140.00 4140.00

Good luck at the tables - you will need it I think.

loonytoons · May 2011

For the hand you showed, tbf he/she was going for the flush draw, by the river they were pot committed, also that 2-3-4-6 board would scare the hell out of me as well, and yes they were fishing the hell out of the hand!!

djblacke04 · May 2011

lol...Quiter...:)

unknown_username · May 2011

I was confident I was ahead all the way until the Q appeared. I don't blame him he's a fish - they hit too often for my liking - simples.

unknown_username · May 2011

In Response to Re: What's wrong with this site?:

lol...Quiter...:)
Posted by djblacke04

Yeah I just looked in the mirror and I definitely don't have MUG printed on my forehead - so I quit.

DOHHHHHHH · May 2011

He can't hit that often if hes 3k down.

Your 5 figures up?

Doesn't that prove who gets rewarded on here? .... The same as elsewhere, the better players.

unknown_username · May 2011

In Response to Re: What's wrong with this site?:

He can't hit that often if hes 3k down. Your 5 figures up? Doesn't that prove who gets rewarded on here? .... The same as elsewhere, the better players.
Posted by DOHHHHHHH

That comment just won me a fiver - I got it almost word for word too

)

It's NOT THE POINT. I don't care how unprofitable he is - this is tournament play - I know he won't cash - he never does, but he has taken me out. I can't reload 'cos this isn't a ring game.

DOHHHHHHH · May 2011

lol

Yeh brutal variance in tournys. It's easier cashing in a tourny full of donks than a tourny of good players, but I agree, it's still bloody hard.

sandygg · May 2011

RIVER hahahha again

spornybol · May 2011

taking mick is site, took 5secconds before turn was turned over

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
spornybol	Small blind		600.00	600.00	11419.50
danielle87	Big blind		1200.00	1800.00	14200.00
	Your hole cards	K K
Dansinman1	Fold
nigelking	Fold
Quietman	Fold
xxx	All-in		11840.00	13640.00	0.00
spornybol	All-in		11419.50	25059.50	0.00
danielle87	Fold
spornybol	Unmatched bet		179.50	24880.00	179.50
spornybol	Show	K K
xxx	Show	A 9
Flop
		2 5 3
Turn
		A
River
		10
xx	Win	Pair of Aces	24880.00		24880.00

dalty · May 2011

In Response to What's wrong with this site?:

I've played here for over 2 years and in the main I've enjoyed it. I've had upswings and downswings and that's to be expected. The community is great - probably the best. Some months ago I sent a PM to Tikay saying that I felt something had changed and that it concerned me. What I was seeing at the tables just didn't seem to make sense. There were just too many long shots coming in. It seemed that the worse you played a hand the more the rewards were. I never got a reply to that PM. That's OK, I understand the man's position. I became interested in what was happening, or certainly appeared to be happening from my view. I had an awful run for a time and then it came good for a time. But good or bad I still felt uncomfortable with what I was seeing. Sometimes I was on the good side of the variance and sometimes I was on the bad side. There's been a lot of discussion in area51 regarding RNG's and the like and mostly it was both informative and interesting. Questions I felt should have been answered by the management were ignored, as they were by the AGCC and TST when I emailed them. I still see things that make me wonder if all is well at Sky Poker. There certainly appears to be a tendency to reward bad play, again from my view of things. I know that a lot of folk won't agree with me and I respect their view and I hope I have always reacted appropriately when I have disagreed with them. I still hold the view that something isn't quite right. Of course I have no proof that what I think is correct - I don't think it would be possible to prove anything even if I tried, and so I can only go with my instincts based on my time in this game and my experience, telling me it's wrong. Over the last few weeks I have been unhappy playing on Sky. I won't bore you with why, it's my opinion and I hope you will respect that. Tonight I said to myself I'll have one last go and see what happens - it wasn't pretty. I will post my final hand on here with the villain's name removed as an example of what I seem to encounter all too often on here. I know that one hand is meaningless but for me it's just the last in a long line of ''coincidences'' that have spoiled for me, what was my poker home for the last 2 years. I won't be playing on Sky although I most certainly will be playing elsewhere. Please don't regard this as an ''I'm off - see you tomorrow'' post. I've thought long and hard over this and I should play where I feel comfortable not where I am constantly suspicious of the outcomes. I will still be hanging around the fantastic people in area51 - you're the best on the site, no matter what the sensible people say, so I will still post from time to time and as I always say - be careful because I'm always watching always taking note. Anyway that hand - feel free to criticise. I knew he had hit on the river but to be honest I couldn't be bothered to fold it. I sharked the guy and he is a serious loser - in the thousands- and I know someone will say we want these players. The problem is on here they hit far too often and when like me you only play mtt's, you meet these drawing machines all the time, and when they keep hitting then your tournament is over. I prefer to have a slightly better run for my money elsewhere. Player Action Cards Amount Pot Balance xxxxxx Small blind 10.00 10.00 1970.00 BAD_BLEET Big blind 20.00 30.00 1980.00 Your hole cards 8 8 elsadog Raise 60.00 90.00 1940.00 TONY509 Fold SAXX1 Call 60.00 150.00 2580.00 chelski007 Call 60.00 210.00 3320.00 xxxxx Call 50.00 260.00 1920.00 BAD_BLEET Call 40.00 300.00 1940.00 Flop 3 4 2 xxxxx Check BAD_BLEET Check elsadog Bet 300.00 600.00 1640.00 SAXX1 Fold chelski007 Fold xxxxx Call 300.00 900.00 1620.00 BAD_BLEET Fold Turn 6 xxxxx Check elsadog Bet 900.00 1800.00 740.00 xxxxx Call 900.00 2700.00 720.00 River Q xxxxx All-in 720.00 3420.00 0.00 elsadog Call 720.00 4140.00 20.00 xxxxxx Show Q 8 elsadog Show 8 8 xxxxxx Win Pair of Queens 4140.00 4140.00 Good luck at the tables - you will need it I think.
Posted by elsadog

the set ups on here are so unrealistic it's a total joke saw this twice tonite on my table plus countless other draws and beats involving at least 3 players a time with big hands.

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
bjurtt10	Small blind		100.00	100.00	4620.00
timeforbed	Big blind		200.00	300.00	5440.00
	Your hole cards	Q Q
dalty	Raise		600.00	900.00	4642.50
ISH_	Call		600.00	1500.00	2343.75
Labukoll	Call		600.00	2100.00	6295.00
wingman2	Raise		1400.00	3500.00	2150.00
bjurtt10	Fold
timeforbed	Fold
dalty	Call		800.00	4300.00	3842.50
ISH_	All-in		2343.75	6643.75	0.00
Labukoll	Fold
wingman2	All-in		2150.00	8793.75	0.00
dalty	Raise		3693.75	12487.50	148.75
dalty	Unmatched bet		1543.75	10943.75	1692.50
dalty	Show	Q Q
ISH_	Show	A A
wingman2	Show	K K
Flop
		K 4 5
Turn
		4
River
		Q

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
KaraWS104	Small blind		30.00	30.00	1437.50
rawhand	Big blind		60.00	90.00	2253.75
	Your hole cards	10 10
bexlex4424	Fold
yidette9	Fold
dalty	Raise		180.00	270.00	3512.50
hancock20	All-in		1566.25	1836.25	0.00
KaraWS104	All-in		1437.50	3273.75	0.00
rawhand	Fold
dalty	Call		1386.25	4660.00	2126.25
KaraWS104	Show	K K
dalty	Show	10 10
hancock20	Show	J J
Flop
		9 9 A
Turn
		2
River
		7
KaraWS104	Win	Two Pairs, Kings and 9s	4462.50		4462.50
hancock20	Win	Two Pairs, Jacks and 9s	197.50

and also there were 3 occasions of set against set and seven turns of runner runner out draws and 11 rivered hands all in a massive total of 134 hands played lol.back to stan james for me he still loves me.
oh and on a brighter note my hubby joined about three weeks ago and is hotter than the sun at the mo and dishing out more bad beats than jedward lol,hmmmm new player syndrome nahh it can't be it's straight remember.

spornybol · May 2011

and the amount off ????? calling any two and hitting, carries on like this then they can take a running jump

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
GCONE	Small blind		40.00	40.00	18757.50
spornybol	Big blind		80.00	120.00	4705.00
	Your hole cards	Q Q
martoni0	Fold
scorpio13	Call		80.00	200.00	7360.00
bigclem1	Fold
ianfurlong	Fold
GCONE	Call		40.00	240.00	18717.50
spornybol	Raise		240.00	480.00	4465.00
scorpio13	Fold
GCONE	Call		240.00	720.00	18477.50
Flop
		7 9 2
GCONE	Check
spornybol	Bet		540.00	1260.00	3925.00
GCONE	Call		540.00	1800.00	17937.50
Turn
		10
GCONE	Check
spornybol	Bet		1350.00	3150.00	2575.00
GCONE	Raise		2700.00	5850.00	15237.50
spornybol	All-in		2575.00	8425.00	0.00
GCONE	Call		1225.00	9650.00	14012.50
GCONE	Show	6 10
spornybol	Show	Q Q
River
		7
GCONE	Win	Flush to the 10	9650.00		23662.50

SighKO · May 2011

In Response to Re: What's wrong with this site?:

In Response to Re: What's wrong with this site? : Yeah I just looked in the mirror and I definitely don't have MUG printed on my forehead - so I quit.
Posted by elsadog

When somebody of the calibre of Elsadog has issues with the integrity of the site I think everyone should take note. This isn't some off the cuff bitter remark, the likes of which are usually posted in Area 51, these are the genuine thoughts of a very accomplished tournament player, mug he ain't.

FWIW my exit hands tonight, nothing drastic

alias347Small blind 50.0050.001160.00dampdemonBig blind 100.00150.00735.00 Your hole cardsA7 mozziemeFold themansCall 100.00250.006390.00INKFold SighKORaise 300.00550.002865.00alias347Fold dampdemonAll-in 735.001285.000.00themansFold SighKOCall 535.001820.002330.00dampdemonShow4A SighKOShowA7 Flop 104K Turn Q River 6 dampdemonWinFlush to the Ace1820.00 1820.00PrevClose window

PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalancedampdemonSmall blind 50.0050.001770.00mozziemeBig blind 100.00150.002902.50 Your hole cardsA7 themansRaise 200.00350.006190.00INKFold SighKOCall 200.00550.002130.00alias347Fold dampdemonFold mozziemeFold Flop <span style="

djblacke04 · May 2011

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4iiryJwvDtc

dalty · May 2011

In Response to Re: What's wrong with this site?:

In Response to What's wrong with this site? : the set ups on here are so unrealistic it's a total joke saw this twice tonite on my table plus countless other draws and beats involving at least 3 players a time with big hands. Player Action Cards Amount Pot Balance bjurtt10 Small blind 100.00 100.00 4620.00 timeforbed Big blind 200.00 300.00 5440.00 Your hole cards Q Q dalty Raise 600.00 900.00 4642.50 ISH_ Call 600.00 1500.00 2343.75 Labukoll Call 600.00 2100.00 6295.00 wingman2 Raise 1400.00 3500.00 2150.00 bjurtt10 Fold timeforbed Fold dalty Call 800.00 4300.00 3842.50 ISH_ All-in 2343.75 6643.75 0.00 Labukoll Fold wingman2 All-in 2150.00 8793.75 0.00 dalty Raise 3693.75 12487.50 148.75 dalty Unmatched bet 1543.75 10943.75 1692.50 dalty Show Q Q ISH_ Show A A wingman2 Show K K Flop K 4 5 Turn 4 River Q Player Action Cards Amount Pot Balance KaraWS104 Small blind 30.00 30.00 1437.50 rawhand Big blind 60.00 90.00 2253.75 Your hole cards 10 10 bexlex4424 Fold yidette9 Fold dalty Raise 180.00 270.00 3512.50 hancock20 All-in 1566.25 1836.25 0.00 KaraWS104 All-in 1437.50 3273.75 0.00 rawhand Fold dalty Call 1386.25 4660.00 2126.25 KaraWS104 Show K K dalty Show 10 10 hancock20 Show J J Flop 9 9 A Turn 2 River 7 KaraWS104 Win Two Pairs, Kings and 9s 4462.50 4462.50 hancock20 Win Two Pairs, Jacks and 9s 197.50 and also there were 3 occasions of set against set and seven turns of runner runner out draws and 11 rivered hands all in a massive total of 134 hands played lol.back to stan james for me he still loves me. oh and on a brighter note my hubby joined about three weeks ago and is hotter than the sun at the mo and dishing out more bad beats than jedward lol,hmmmm new player syndrome nahh it can't be it's straight remember.
Posted by dalty

a personal thought on why there more beats and set ups recently is numbers on here have been dwindling for the last 6-12 months this time last year there was normaly about 5000 online here now it's down to an average of 3500-4000 thats a large loss to the player base so a little tweak in the software has occured to get more action and people out of tournaments quicker to buy in to the next one to generate rake quicker from a smaller customer base keeping there profit margin to roughly where it should be,this would explain why were all experiancing a different game.lol even wsop on my iphone plays a better game than here and thats a computer game for FUN not nicking my funds for some greed corperate ~~~~~~

SighKO · May 2011

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3sBDu_9kw4

DOHHHHHHH · May 2011

In Response to Re: What's wrong with this site?:

In Response to Re: What's wrong with this site? : a personal thought on why there more beats and set ups recently is numbers on here have been dwindling for the last 6-12 months this time last year there was normaly about 5000 online here now it's down to an average of 3500-4000 thats a large loss to the player base so a little tweak in the software has occured to get more action and people out of tournaments quicker to buy in to the next one to generate rake quicker from a smaller customer base keeping there profit margin to roughly where it should be,this would explain why were all experiancing a different game.lol even wsop on my iphone plays a better game than here and thats a computer game for FUN not nicking my funds for some greed corperate ~~~~~~
Posted by dalty

Apparently this is the opposite of what is happening.

TK has said numerous times before that the site is getting bigger, and I don't see why he would lie.

unknown_username · May 2011

In Response to Re: What's wrong with this site?:

In Response to Re: What's wrong with this site? : Apparently this is the opposite of what is happening. TK has said numerous times before that the site is getting bigger, and I don't see why he would lie.
Posted by DOHHHHHHH

JUST LOL

they have 200,000 active players you know ......... and 1.2% of them are seated at this very moment

)

DOHHHHHHH · May 2011

Ask him to prove it if you don't believe him.

He must have some stats/proof to be able to make the comment in the first place.

I don't understand how they work it out, and I don't really care, as it doesn't make any difference - but if you want him to, I'm sure he can show you some proof.

unknown_username · May 2011

In Response to Re: What's wrong with this site?:

Ask him to prove it if you don't believe him. He must have some stats/proof to be able to make the comment in the first place. I don't understand how they work it out, and I don't really care, as it doesn't make any difference - but if you want him to, I'm sure he can show you some proof.
Posted by DOHHHHHHH

They have doubled the entry fees and reduced the guarantees and they just barely scrape to meet them. I don't need to ask about numbers playing.

The usual excuse of time of year doesn't wash either - I suppose the missing 197,500 are all on holiday.

djblacke04 · May 2011

In Response to Re: What's wrong with this site?:

Ask him to prove it if you don't believe him. He must have some stats/proof to be able to make the comment in the first place. I don't understand how they work it out, and I don't really care, as it doesn't make any difference - but if you want him to, I'm sure he can show you some proof.
Posted by DOHHHHHHH

yeah must be getting bigger,....the velocity used to have almost 1000 runners,now it has like 50...lol....huge increase....:)

unknown_username · May 2011

In Response to Re: What's wrong with this site?:

In Response to Re: What's wrong with this site? : yeah must be getting bigger,....the velocity used to have almost 1000 runners,now it has like 50...lol....huge increase....:)
Posted by djblacke04

How much was the Primo?

In last weeks there were 278 players - when I won it last July there were 480. July is the summer too.

DOHHHHHHH · May 2011

All I'm saying is ask him to prove it.

He wont shirk the question, like the suits did regarding the rng questions that you asked.

dalty · May 2011

In Response to Re: What's wrong with this site?:

In Response to Re: What's wrong with this site? : Apparently this is the opposite of what is happening. TK has said numerous times before that the site is getting bigger, and I don't see why he would lie.
Posted by DOHHHHHHH

lol you only have to look at the number of people on line to see this is fact numbers are dwindling dohhhhhh you really believe they would tell you anything different oh yeah were a business and were not doing aswell as we were hmmmmm.

dalty · May 2011

you just got to lol two hands within 2 minutes

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
homemaker	Small blind		15.00	15.00	1755.00
acepat	Big blind		30.00	45.00	1800.00
	Your hole cards	A A
rob2k94	Raise		150.00	195.00	3307.50
Claire120	Call		150.00	345.00	1800.00
dalty	Raise		510.00	855.00	2482.50
homemaker	Call		495.00	1350.00	1260.00
acepat	Fold
rob2k94	Call		360.00	1710.00	2947.50
Claire120	Fold
Flop
		Q 6 Q
homemaker	All-in		1260.00	2970.00	0.00
rob2k94	Fold
dalty	Call		1260.00	4230.00	1222.50
homemaker	Show	Q K
dalty	Show	A A
Turn
		J
River
		5
homemaker	Win	Three Queens	4230.00		4230.00

Hand History #372828203 (23:46 17/05/2011)

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
rob2k94	Small blind		15.00	15.00	3592.50
Claire120	Big blind		30.00	45.00	1650.00
	Your hole cards	Q A
dalty	All-in		712.50	757.50	0.00
homemaker	Fold
acepat	Fold
rob2k94	Call		697.50	1455.00	2895.00
Claire120	Fold
rob2k94	Show	J A
dalty	Show	Q A
Flop
		7 9 4
Turn
		5
River
		J
rob2k94	Win	Pair of Jacks	1455.00		4350.00

pause on the turn (must be lag lol) you just know whats comming next.

unknown_username · May 2011

WOW there's now 0.6% of the 200,000 active players on site - are Thomas Cook's giving away free holidays?

pod1 · May 2011

ive always respected you elsa, you gave me great advice when i first started. you speak alot of sense and are prob one of the most knowledgeable players on this site. as you know i sit on the fence on the rng/algorithm debate. all i can say i have had the worst mnth i have ever had playing poker, partly down to bad play by me and partly poker gods. i have taken a break from here starting yest, might be a week might be a mnth im not sure yet. all i can say is what ever decision you make , just dont make it permanent, you would be missed phil

MAXALLY · May 2011

Good riddance woof woof!

The less Alans on here the better IMO. When they start doing the set ups in alphabetical order, I will be quids in! I just need to get Aaron (Machka) & Anjie1970 6 month bans and I will increase my chances.

Take care pal and I do listen to what you are saying.....so keep saying it please, even if you ain't playing on here no more.

You have a free tab in AL's Bar mate.

GaryQQQ · May 2011

A player who has won £1,000s leaving the site because he got outdrawn in a hand by a player who has lost £1,000s. I've heard it all now.

Skill prevails over time, hence each players long-tem results.

Hopefully a few more of the big winning MTT players will decide to leave with elsadog, in fact the more that go the merrier, and all the guys losing their £1,000s will decide to stay. That'll be just fine with me.

LOL_RAISE · May 2011

didnt you final table the primo recently, and you say you won it last july? so in the last 11months there have been 44maximum primos that you could have entered, with average field size slightly over 300 id imagine, and you have won one of them and FT'd another (atleast once!). do you realise how good you have to run to final table these comps let alone win them?

unknown_username · May 2011

In Response to Re: What's wrong with this site?:

A player who has won £1,000s leaving the site because he got outdrawn in a hand by a player who has lost £1,000s. I've heard it all now. Skill prevails over time, hence each players long-tem results. Hopefully a few more of the big winning MTT players will decide to leave with elsadog, in fact the more that go the merrier, and all the guys losing their £1,000s will decide to stay. That'll be just fine with me.
Posted by GaryQQQ

LOL very good.

You don't just read between the lines you miss whole pages.

What's wrong with this site?

Comments

Hand History #372828203 (23:46 17/05/2011)