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Ah got a feelin

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  • edited July 2013
    In Response to Re: 100 MTT Games - Ah got a feeling:
    Hi Larson, I've reads bits of this thread but not the whole thing so sorry if this has already been asked, but have you read any MTT books to help with your quest?
    Posted by Andyl1986
    Hi Andy,

    I've not read any books on poker.

    Always thought it would be hard to learn from a book about something that is so situational/ player dependant.

    If it was about general themes and theories it would be a good idea, as long as it was at a decent enough level.

    Since i've started this, i've been really happy with how i've been playing overall. Couple of games i have tilted when playing 2 tournies at same time, had a bad beat, which has affected my play in the other, making really bad decisions.

    There is a lot of positives , i need to iron out a few things.

    The biggest thing i need to do is ramp up the aggression in the middle/ to late stages, but has been hard so far cause late on i've been running pretty bad.
  • edited July 2013
    In Response to Re: 100 MTT Games - Ah got a feeling:
    In Response to Re: 100 MTT Games - Ah got a feeling : Hi Andy, I've not read any books on poker. Always thought it would be hard to learn from a book about something that is so situational/ player dependant. If it was about general themes and theories it would be a good idea, as long as it was at a decent enough level. Since i've started this, i've been really happy with how i've been playing overall. Couple of games i have tilted when playing 2 tournies at same time, had a bad beat, which has affected my play in the other, making really bad decisions. There is a lot of positives , i need to iron out a few things. The biggest thing i need to do is ramp up the aggression in the middle/ to late stages, but has been hard so far cause late on i've been running pretty bad.
    Posted by LARSON7
    Totally understand where you're coming from, however if you do decide to give it a go I'd recommend 'Kill Everyone' by Lee Nelson - helped improve my game and my results after reading it.  

    I've shared the odd table with you in some of the deep stacks.  I actually busted you (sorry) from one on Sunday.  You had just lost a large pot then the next hand shoved the bottom end of an up and down straight draw (3 cards of the draw were on the board) in a limped pot for probably about 60bbs when I had flopped the straight.  Sorry to bring this hand up - I'm not trying to brag or rub you down but it reminded me of myself not too long ago.

    I really don't mean to sound patronising and I'm sure you were maybe a bit tilted, but a key thing to remember in the deep stacks is that there's no need to panic when losing a big pot early on as you often have plenty chips in relation to the blinds because of the slow structure giving you opportunities to rebuild.  I've gone on to final table many of these tourneys after losing half my stack in the early levels.

    Sounds like you've got the right attitude - been working on my MTT game for a while now and the results are starting to come through.  Just stay patient, keep grinding and learning and you'll get there.

    Best of luck and run well.  I am by no means an expert or anything of the sort but if you ever wanna chat hands etc then give me a shout.

     
  • edited July 2013
    lasson there is site calle poker straegy. google it i shoul help ur game from the looks of it ur middle game need improment. 

    but i don't understamt low level tpourye on here the persons are crazy to say the least.
  • edited July 2013
    A lot of people (generally on poker forums) say all poker books are redundant and rubbish now but that isn't true.

    There's a series calling 'Winning Poker Tournaments: One Hand at a Time'. There are 3 volumes to it and they're all a great read. It's written by 3 online MTT pros and they just talk through hand after hand of their own play during tournaments they've played and explain what they do, why they do it, how they're decisions are affected by different opponent types, different stack sizes etc. They're a great read.
  • edited July 2013
    In Response to Re: 100 MTT Games - Ah got a feeling:
    In Response to Re: 100 MTT Games - Ah got a feeling : Totally understand where you're coming from, however if you do decide to give it a go I'd recommend 'Kill Everyone' by Lee Nelson - helped improve my game and my results after reading it.   I've shared the odd table with you in some of the deep stacks.  I actually busted you (sorry) from one on Sunday.  You had just lost a large pot then the next hand shoved the bottom end of an up and down straight draw (3 cards of the draw were on the board) in a limped pot for probably about 60bbs when I had flopped the straight.  Sorry to bring this hand up - I'm not trying to brag or rub you down but it reminded me of myself not too long ago. I really don't mean to sound patronising and I'm sure you were maybe a bit tilted, but a key thing to remember in the deep stacks is that there's no need to panic when losing a big pot early on as you often have plenty chips in relation to the blinds because of the slow structure giving you opportunities to rebuild.  I've gone on to final table many of these tourneys after losing half my stack in the early levels. Sounds like you've got the right attitude - been working on my MTT game for a while now and the results are starting to come through.  Just stay patient, keep grinding and learning and you'll get there. Best of luck and run well.  I am by no means an expert or anything of the sort but if you ever wanna chat hands etc then give me a shout.  
    Posted by Andyl1986
    lol Andy

    See when i said i tilted i was talking about that exact tournie, i thinki went out the other tournie i was in like 2 hands later, cause i was on tilt.

    The hand previous, my aces were busted by 67, i stuck in a massive 3 bet called with junk.

    Flop 678, really wet board, oppo put in a redic small bet, i was thinking sets etc etc, i just called (i needed to reraise here every day of the week), checked to on turn, i bet about 800, they call, six on the river, and donk bet for about 1500 which i call! I was thinking i'm beat, but the only hand that made sense betting wise through the hand was oppo having a six. Then i talked myself into the fact given the pre flop action they could never have a 6 here.

    Next hand against you was just pure spew! Nice hand btw, not bad flopping a straight!:D

    I'll check out that book mate, thanks.
  • edited July 2013
    In Response to Re: 100 MTT Games - Ah got a feeling:
    A lot of people (generally on poker forums) say all poker books are redundant and rubbish now but that isn't true. There's a series calling 'Winning Poker Tournaments: One Hand at a Time'. There are 3 volumes to it and they're all a great read. It's written by 3 online MTT pros and they just talk through hand after hand of their own play during tournaments they've played and explain what they do, why they do it, how they're decisions are affected by different opponent types, different stack sizes etc. They're a great read.
    Posted by Lambert180
    do you have a copy buddy, like e book?
  • edited July 2013
    Hows this going at the minute mate?
  • edited July 2013
    Sorry, forgot about yout question to me here until I saw Gazza post.

    Erm I have hard copies of all 3, I'm a big bookworm and always prefer paper copies to e-books but I'm sure you could find something online. They are about £11 each in paper form so you might not wanna try to get them online somewhere for free

    You anywhere near having played 100 MTTs yet? Have you kept records, do you know how many cashes you've, how many FTs etc? I wouldn't be too disheartened if you don't have any wins in only 100 games, MTTs can be like that. Do you know if you're showing a profit from them?
  • edited July 2013
    In Response to Re: 100 MTT Games - Ah got a feeling:
    Hows this going at the minute mate?
    Posted by gazza127
    Not played 2 many MTT's since monday, maybe 3 in total. One of them, i exited, with pocket Queens, i had 3 xed 1 caller. Guy flopped a straight with 56. The other 2 i was out pretty early.

    Paul, since this started i must have played about 20 games.

    I've cashed about 5 times and also had a few bounties.

    I must be down a fair bit from the games i've played since the start of this. I expected this would probably be the case when i started. I'll need to start keeping better records of results.

    Glad i started this, has been really interesting and learned a bit, most importantly i know the areas i need to work on a lot more.

    I'm going to try and spend some time "studying" and improving my knowlegde of MTTs. Might have a look at some of the books mentioned above. Had a look on Amazon they are £20, tried the library too and they dont have em lol But, might try and pick up 1 or 2 books on MTT play. Especially to look at themes/ strategies. Doing this would help a good amount.

    Mr sharkscope looks pretty terrible, long term if i put in the effort, start getting the results, this will sort itself out. In my time on sky, i've won about 3 or 4 low stakes MTTs, which was when i knew a lot less about poker lol

    I'll try to keep doing the right things and sucess will come.

    There is a few leaks, if i sort these it will go along away to helping improve results at MTTs.

    As i said initially, the biggets thing i need to improve upon is play in the middle stages.

    I don't think it helps the lack of volume in MTTs, in the grand scheme of things ive not played that many of them. I would say there been no point during this where i have ran well. Looking forward to getting a bit of run good later on in a tournie.

    Also, i've noticed as Andy highlighted above i have a tendency to tilt in MTTs, this is quite a big leake too.

    If i'm on later tonight' i'll have a go at a few MTTS.
  • edited July 2013
    In Response to Re: 100 MTT Games - Ah got a feeling:
    A lot of people (generally on poker forums) say all poker books are redundant and rubbish now but that isn't true. There's a series calling 'Winning Poker Tournaments: One Hand at a Time'. There are 3 volumes to it and they're all a great read. It's written by 3 online MTT pros and they just talk through hand after hand of their own play during tournaments they've played and explain what they do, why they do it, how they're decisions are affected by different opponent types, different stack sizes etc. They're a great read.
    Posted by Lambert180
    +1 to this recommendation.

    If you buy these books and read them properly they'll pay for themselves many times over. This series is more comprehensive and easier to learn from than Kill Everyone in my opinion.
  • edited July 2013
    What would you do in this spot? Just fold?

    I just folded, the only thing i'm beating is a bluff, which is really unlikely ere
    Browny1491 Small blind  15.00 15.00 2592.50
    LARSON7 Big blind  30.00 45.00 2612.50
      Your hole cards
    • K
    • K
         
    HB-city Fold     
    r1badboy17 Fold     
    UP4ITRUTWO Fold     
    R0C066 Fold     
    Browny1491 Raise  60.00 105.00 2532.50
    LARSON7 Raise  225.00 330.00 2387.50
    Browny1491 Call  180.00 510.00 2352.50
    Flop
       
    • 8
    • A
    • 2
         
    Browny1491 Check     
    LARSON7 Bet  255.00 765.00 2132.50
    Browny1491 Call  255.00 1020.00 2097.50
    Turn
       
    • Q
         
    Browny1491 Bet  765.00 1785.00 1332.50
    LARSON7 ? 
  • edited July 2013
    Played the 8:50 BH tonight, ended up 49th out of 162.

    Wasn't the best of tournies for me, card dead most of the way, the Kings hand above was my best hand and i still couldnt win it!

    I grinded a short stack for a while, eventually got it in with AQ versus KK, i hut my flush on river thinking i had sucked out for a change! First card was a King, didn't notice the board had paired lol

  • edited July 2013
    Played 1 MTT today, 68th out of 108.

    Started out well, really sweet table, got up to 7k, lost a coupld of big hands, was back down to 5k

    This is the exit hand, on the turn when i hit my king and am min raised, looks like 2 pair/ or i'm beat, i shoved hoping they were overplaying a weaker ace. Don't like just calling, shove and cross my fingers!
    LEMOSPORTS Small blind  50.00 50.00 32125.00
    Lord_Marco Big blind  100.00 150.00 4605.00
      Your hole cards
    • K
    • A
         
    LARSON7 Raise  300.00 450.00 4802.00
    RTC1000 Call  300.00 750.00 10855.50
    ironzy17 Fold     
    LEMOSPORTS Fold     
    Lord_Marco Fold     
    Flop
       
    • 3
    • 2
    • Q
         
    LARSON7 Bet  375.00 1125.00 4427.00
    RTC1000 Call  375.00 1500.00 10480.50
    Turn
       
    • K
         
    LARSON7 Bet  1125.00 2625.00 3302.00
    RTC1000 Raise  2250.00 4875.00 8230.50
    LARSON7 All-in  3302.00 8177.00 0.00
    RTC1000 Call  2177.00 10354.00 6053.50
    LARSON7 Show
    • K
    • A
       
    RTC1000 Show
    • Q
    • K
       
    River
       
    • 6
         
    RTC1000 Win Two Pairs, Kings and Queens 10354
  • edited July 2013
    I min raise + sb at this stage at the tournament (250 here).  Does the same job as a 3x raise.  Dont mind the continuation bet.  Turn bet I probably make it slightly less (800-900) as you can still ship river if called, but 1.1k isnt bad.  Just makes it harder to fold if you get raised.

    Im hating the min raise by the oppo.  You've raised pre... youve bet flop.  Youve bet quite big on turn... and he still wants to raise.  Do I get away from it?  Unlikely as i've just hit my K but min raise usually means he has you beaten.  Itd be a tight fold, but you cant call raise to fold river.  Shove or fold but the warning signs are there that he has you beaten.

    Thing is you dont get time to think about all this stuff when playing with your 8 seconds or whatever you get.
  • edited July 2013

    Totally mate. I think i'm behind here due to how player played etc etc, but thought i've only got  a pot sized bet behind. I can fold and still be in, but wanted to take the chance, incase AK was still good.

    It's prob an easy fold (reads), i'm hardly ever good here.

    Goes

  • edited July 2013
    Bet sizing is a bit erractic. Would probably go a bit less on the turn.

    When he clicks it back we are almost always behind. Thats where discipline kicks in and we reluctantly hit the left button unless we know villain will stack off with worse. Easier said than done though, and the lack of time doesn't help. 
  • edited July 2013
    Just had another look at this, when the player min raises, I know i'm beat.

    I should have just folded, not ideal but still have plenty of chips.

    Re, Betsizing, 3/4 pot is overkill? Are we always betting smaller here on the turn?
  • edited July 2013
    In Response to Re: 100 MTT Games - Ah got a feeling:
    Just had another look at this, when the player min raises, I know i'm beat. I should have just folded, not ideal but still have plenty of chips. Re, Betsizing, 3/4 pot is overkill? Are we always betting smaller here on the turn?
    Posted by LARSON7
    Yep 3/4 is a bit overkill IMO.  If you bet say 850 and get called you can still ship the river/value bet if you think you are ahead.  Betting 3/4 pot inflates it a bit too much and you find it much harder getting away from it if villain raises you.  I like adding to the pot relatively small bets (half pot + a little) keeping in smaller Ks and Qs... when you bet 3/4 you are getting rid off weaker hands generally telling oppo youve hit quite big (unless youre prone to a bluff).

    It just seems like youre trying to take the pot there and then.  You should be looking for value off weaker hands and keeping the pot controllable if you find yourself beaten. 
  • edited July 2013
    In Response to Re: 100 MTT Games - Ah got a feeling:
    Just had another look at this, when the player min raises, I know i'm beat. I should have just folded, not ideal but still have plenty of chips. Re, Betsizing, 3/4 pot is overkill? Are we always betting smaller here on the turn?
    Posted by LARSON7
    Board has two straight and two flush draws
    I'm happy to charge 3/4 pot
    also gives more confidence that the min raise is super strong, whereas with a half pot bet you might get raised by a draw by more aggro players
  • edited July 2013
    Thanks Gaz and Geldy.

    ----------------------------------------------

    Tonight i'm going to play in the DTD games, really hard games, but good fun for a fiver.

    Hoping to get a bit of run good!
  • edited July 2013
    Wow Played the Community Night Games, toughest MTTs that i play in over the week lol

    I didn't do much tonight. Would be interesting to get some feedback on 2 exit hands.

    The first 1, guy open shoved for 40-50 bigs, i have pocket 9s. I doubt he is that strong open shoving, if he has a big ace, i thought it was worth gambling to get a stack. He has pocket Kings which hold

    Hand 2, would be interested to hear peoples thoughts on this? I guess people might think this is 2 loose, it's shove or fold in my opinion.
    Edit, just looked at this, i really need to bet the turn, i think.
    cajones Small blind  150.00 150.00 11308.75
    LARSON7 Big blind  300.00 450.00 8883.25
      Your hole cards
    • 9
    • 9
         
    cheekydeke Call  300.00 750.00 12255.00
    hndlkcool Fold     
    POKERTREV Fold     
    cajones All-in  11308.75 12058.75 0.00
    LARSON7 All-in  8883.25 20942.00 0.00
    cheekydeke Fold  
    LARSON7 Small blind  30.00 30.00 2015.00
    neil1970 Big blind  60.00 90.00 2535.00
      Your hole cards
    • A
    • Q
         
    Oban Fold     
    wynne1938 Call  60.00 150.00 4060.00
    hellraser2 Fold     
    shirley02 Fold     
    LARSON7 Raise  150.00 300.00 1865.00
    neil1970 Fold     
    wynne1938 Call  120.00 420.00 3940.00
    Flop
       
    • 10
    • 8
    • 5
         
    LARSON7 Bet  210.00 630.00 1655.00
    wynne1938 Call  210.00 840.00 3730.00
    Turn
       
    • 3
         
    LARSON7 Check     
    wynne1938 Bet  630.00 1470.00 3100.00
    LARSON7 All-in  1655.00 3125.00 0.00
    wynne1938 Call  1025.00 4150.00 2075.00
    LARSON7 Show
    • A
    • Q
       
    wynne1938 Show
    • K
    • 10
       
    River
       
    • 6
         
    wynne1938 Win Pair of 10s
  • edited July 2013
    Hand 1) I dont like the call to be honest mate.  You have near enough 30bb and are just guessing as to what oppo has.  Always remember its better to shove than to call.  Youve invested nothing.  Fold and look for a better less random spot.

    Hand 2) I prob make it 180-200 because of limper.  Fine to continuation bet on flop.  Now what are we doing on the turn? Check then raise all in when oppo is not folding because of pot odds.  Its check/fold mate.
  • edited July 2013
    In Response to Re: 100 MTT Games - Ah got a feeling:
    Hand 1) I dont like the call to be honest mate.  You have near enough 30bb and are just guessing as to what oppo has.  Always remember its better to shove than to call.  Youve invested nothing.  Fold and look for a better less random spot. Hand 2) I prob make it 180-200 because of limper.  Fine to continuation bet on flop.  Now what are we doing on the turn? Check then raise all in when oppo is not folding because of pot odds.  Its check/fold mate.
    Posted by gazza127
    Larson7 has also posted this in the clinic so I moved my reply there
    no surprise it's very similar to yours
  • edited July 2013
    Yeah Hand 1 we can fold, there's just no need to gamble 30xBB and hope we're a marginal favourite in a flip. We could be crushed and at best, we're not in great shape. We got 30xBB, just play some poker and you can beat them.

    Hand 2 same as Gazza said. C/R is the worst option cos we're never getting folds, so we're always getting called and it will always be by better hands and our equity isn't that great anymore with only 1 card to come. I don't hate barrelling or maybe C/C a small bet, but when he bets this size we have to let it go.
  • edited July 2013
    Thanks.

    I'll prob take a break from MTTs for a bit, i really need to do some reading/ studying on them before i go any further.

    Hand 2 is really bad! I had to post it for others to confirm how bad it was, yeah i have outs, but am quite a massive dog.

    Going to look at getting some books on mtt strategy, i'll have a look at the 1s already mentioned.
  • edited July 2013
    1. at almost 30+40 bb deep this is to loose, racing is the best your gonna get here.
    2. your pre is way to small make it 3.5-4bb with the limper. Your flop sizing is really weak for a drawy board, make it 2/3-pot sized here, it's fine getting it in if he shoves. The turn you need to either be letting it go and c/f or continue your aggression with another large bet that makes him fold a lot of his 10x, low pp and draw hands. overall not aggro enough here against a wide range.
  • edited July 2013

    Ended up 3rd in rebuy tournie, my queens were beat my 6 9 suited for an 80k pot (100k chips in play!)

    lol unbelievable way to finish a tournie this is the exit hand


    TopMan12 Small blind  600.00 600.00 24910.00
    LARSON7 Big blind  1200.00 1800.00 40429.00
      Your hole cards
    • Q
    • Q
         
    TROUT117 All-in  40861.00 42661.00 0.00
    TopMan12 Fold     
    LARSON7 Call  39661.00 82322.00 768.00
    LARSON7 Show
    • Q
    • Q
       
    TROUT117 Show
    • 9
    • 6
       
    Flop
       
    • 8
    • 2
    • 5
         
    Turn
       
    • 10
         
    River
       
    • 7
         
    TROUT117 Win Flush to the 9 82322.00
  • edited July 2013

    lol this was really annoying.

    I know it's bad to moan about bad beats, but right now it's pretty sick lol

    I have a massive edge 3 handed and this happens

    TROUT1171080001£24.50
    TopMan1202£14.70
    LARSON703£9.80
  • edited July 2013
    Insane exit hand, really really brutal!

    f.u MTTs! 
  • edited July 2013
    Yeah this is why MTTs are disgusting lol... I can live with that in the first level, but happening 3handed on the FT is just brutal. Hold there and the win is yours. The positive to take from it though is that you got there and got it in in great shape basically FTW. Keep at it and you'll do it again (but win next time).
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