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NL4 Thread...April 2014... current b/r £74.03 (from £20 deposit)

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  • devonfish5devonfish5
    edited January 2014
    In Response to Re: NL4 Thread...January 2014:
    hey m8 just seen your bak best of luck at tables hope u crush :)
    Posted by liamboi11
    cheers William,

    not back at nl10 yet, but making progress :)

    best wishes buddy
    (* *)
       ^
    dev
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  • CraigSG1CraigSG1
    edited January 2014
    I know what you mean about being comfortable at a certain discipline. I'm very good at SNG's but don't play them on this site as takes too long to get tables going. My next best is MTTs which I do ok at. I am learning cash too and will be for years I'm sure. There are lots of different ways to play cash, all I would say is find your own way and style and don't let anyone change it dramatically. Adjust yes, but don't change as you will have your own way. Hope it works! 
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  • devonfish5devonfish5
    edited January 2014
    In Response to Re: NL4 Thread...January 2014:
    I know what you mean about being comfortable at a certain discipline. I'm very good at SNG's but don't play them on this site as takes too long to get tables going. My next best is MTTs which I do ok at. I am learning cash too and will be for years I'm sure. There are lots of different ways to play cash, all I would say is find your own way and style and don't let anyone change it dramatically. Adjust yes, but don't change as you will have your own way. Hope it works! 
    Posted by CraigSG1
    cheers Craig,

    yeah my bro is as loose as a goose and I'm tight as a ducks ***
    so I know what you mean :)
    (I think somewhere in the middle is what I'm looking for right now!!! )

    cheers,
    dev
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  • devonfish5devonfish5
    edited January 2014

    thurs  9/1/14

    w £1.48  br £23.76

    got away with it tonight me thinks.
    played ok for the most part then lost AA into Jackson 5ives
    very up & down for the last hour.. should have quit really anyway finished well with this little beauty coming up.
    I was up against  loose player playing 'any 2' so figured I was good most times here...

    anyway not complaining.. still going the right way.
    night
    dev
    AmountPotBalance
    mum1 Small blind  £0.02 £0.02 £2.02
    devonfish5 Big blind  £0.04 £0.06 £6.51
      Your hole cards
    • Q
    • A
    		     
    layla1975 Fold     
    x Raise  £0.16 £0.22 £2.65
    mum1 Fold     
    devonfish5 Call  £0.12 £0.34 £6.39
    Flop
       
    • 2
    • A
    • 10
    		     
    devonfish5 Check     
    xBet  £0.20 £0.54 £2.45
    devonfish5 Raise  £0.40 £0.94 £5.99
    x Call  £0.20 £1.14 £2.25
    Turn
       
    • 4
    		     
    devonfish5 Bet  £1.14 £2.28 £4.85
    xCall  £1.14 £3.42 £1.11
    River
       
    • 8
    		     
    devonfish5 Bet  £3.42 £6.84 £1.43
    x All-in  £1.11 £7.95 £0.00
    devonfish5 Unmatched bet  £2.31 £5.64 £3.74
    devonfish5 Show
    • Q
    • A
    		   
    x Show
    • A
    • J
    		   
    devonfish5 Win Pair of Aces £5.21  £8.95
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  • calcalfoldcalcalfold
    edited January 2014

    Hi Dev

    Just to respond to your question at the table, I did not have a chat ban. I request my chat be closed as I found it -ve

    gd luck on the thread

    And re the hand above, way too aggro top pair. I mean you beat him by Q kicker vs J. You don't want to gamble your stack on margins this thin.
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  • walesboywalesboy
    edited January 2014
    nice to see you're back mate
    good luck
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  • calcalfoldcalcalfold
    edited January 2014
    I guess that insta leave means you don't like me having direct position, I was interested to see how you dealt with a bit of pressure.
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  • devonfish5devonfish5
    edited January 2014
    In Response to Re: NL4 Thread...January 2014:
    nice to see you're back mate good luck
    Posted by walesboy
    Thanks mate

    best wishes
    dev
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  • devonfish5devonfish5
    edited January 2014

    Friday  10/1/14

    w £0.00  br £23.76

    up and down again to say the least but happy coming out dead level unbelievably :)
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  • unknown_usernameunknown_username
    edited January 2014
    Welcome back dev buddy.It'll be wee buns for you I'm sure.
    Good luck
    Paul
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  • devonfish5devonfish5
    edited January 2014
    In Response to Re: NL4 Thread...January 2014:
    Welcome back dev buddy.It'll be wee buns for you I'm sure. Good luck Paul
    Posted by bignoise10
    thank you Paul

    hope the wee man and family are just grand x

    dev
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  • mugsy78mugsy78
    edited January 2014
    In Response to Re: NL4 Thread...January 2014:
    best of luck dev my advice is play  tight    just play premium hands only on this level bluffing is a no no on this level get gd hands n bet big :)  full pot bets
    Posted by IDONKCALLU
    Totally disagree. I been playing this level for a few months now and totally crushing it. I can only think of 3 players who seem to know what they are doing. Bluffing 0% of the time is a leak in itself. You just have to find the right frequency. There are so many players on nl4 that are just lose passive and will fold tons to your c-bets etc etc. Its very important to know whos weak passive and who the stations are. We don't want to be checking very often vs lose-passive players and conversly we don't want to be bluffing stations very much, we just bet more thinly vs stations. However you really need to be capping your 3-bet ranges slighty that consist of no bluffs.
    I bluff heaps on nl4, its just a matter of knowing who you bluff. Also you dont want to be double/treble barreling air much, im just talking mainly about taking pots down uncontested post flop. Double barreling works nicely with hands where we are drawing so have a nice slice of equity, i may treble barrel when a draw has been missed but i dont mind getting caught out as i often get paid with my big hands too.
    Its essential to know you opponent then ajust accordingly.
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  • mugsy78mugsy78
    edited January 2014
    Also pot betting the vast majority of the time is meh, we should alter the size of our bets to style of opponent/board texture etc etc
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  • devonfish5devonfish5
    edited January 2014

    thank you for your thoughts mugsy.
    learning all the time.
    thanks for sharing
    run good
    dev

    ps; keep away from my 1 table...please.  he he
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  • mugsy78mugsy78
    edited January 2014
    In Response to Re: NL4 Thread...January 2014:
    thank you for your thoughts mugsy. learning all the time. thanks for sharing run good dev ps; keep away from my 1 table...please.  he he
    Posted by devonfish5
    You're welcome. I'm not suggesting to go out now and bluff bluff bluff. Just figure out who is passive post flop. Also bet sizing is critical when bluffing. Pot betting as a bluff is generally bad, half to 2/3 of pot will have more chance of showing a profit in the long term for obv reasons. Also bluffing multi-way pots is bad. Having a good pre flop game will help going into the hand post flop, we generally want to be raising the vast majority of the time rather than limping as we want the pot hu post flop.
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  • calcalfoldcalcalfold
    edited January 2014
    In Response to Re: NL4 Thread...January 2014:
    In Response to Re: NL4 Thread...January 2014 : Totally disagree. I been playing this level for a few months now and totally crushing it. I can only think of 3 players who seem to know what they are doing. Bluffing 0% of the time is a leak in itself. You just have to find the right frequency. There are so many players on nl4 that are just lose passive and will fold tons to your c-bets etc etc. Its very important to know whos weak passive and who the stations are. We don't want to be checking very often vs lose-passive players and conversly we don't want to be bluffing stations very much, we just bet more thinly vs stations. However you really need to be capping your 3-bet ranges slighty that consist of no bluffs. I bluff heaps on nl4, its just a matter of knowing who you bluff. Also you dont want to be double/treble barreling air much, im just talking mainly about taking pots down uncontested post flop. Double barreling works nicely with hands where we are drawing so have a nice slice of equity, i may treble barrel when a draw has been missed but i dont mind getting caught out as i often get paid with my big hands too. Its essential to know you opponent then ajust accordingly.
    Posted by mugsy78
    Cannot agree more.

    You should be using your brain, making accurate value bets / bluffs with the information you have. Most of the regs are just so transparent with their hands its unreal.

    Also re pot betting when you have made hands, just don't do it unless the villain is a complete moron. Pot betting is just lolobv. oooh I have TPTK+ lets mash pot bet all three streets and expect to get paid off by worse. zzzzzzzzz

    Oh, and min bet donking out with draws, just stop doing it. Might work at 4nl (sometimes) but at 10nl you will not have this luxury.
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  • devonfish5devonfish5
    edited January 2014
    In Response to Re: NL4 Thread...January 2014:
    In Response to Re: NL4 Thread...January 2014 : You're welcome. I'm not suggesting to go out now and bluff bluff bluff. Just figure out who is passive post flop. Also bet sizing is critical when bluffing. Pot betting as a bluff is generally bad, half to 2/3 of pot will have more chance of showing a profit in the long term for obv reasons. Also bluffing multi-way pots is bad. Having a good pre flop game will help going into the hand post flop, we generally want to be raising the vast majority of the time rather than limping as we want the pot hu post flop.
    Posted by mugsy78
    thanks again mugsy,

    great info.
    there's about as much chance of us having a 'heat wave' than me going 'bluff bluff bluff'  lol

    :)
    dev
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  • devonfish5devonfish5
    edited January 2014

    Saturday 11/1/14

     w £3.46  br £27.22

    that's better. no dramas just nice 'n ' easy  :)
    very card dead for first 1/2 hour or so, than picked up this beauty hand below which got things rolling :)
    very passive table today and I thought 'if u can't beat 'em...join 'em' sort of attitude, which I know is not really correct but it worked for me today.
    anyway, taking 1 day at a time as always. as br is growing nicely so is my confidence, so might play more aggressively pre-flop next time, as Mugsy has just suggested.  :) and see how that goes. 
    all for now..
    hand coming up
    cheers dev

     I know I got pushed off a few marginal holding hands a few times on the river, but just held my patience and waited for the right moment to strike, as below shows.  he he
    AmountPotBalance
    Pam1945 Small blind  £0.02 £0.02 £0.23
    Dunc921 Big blind  £0.04 £0.06 £2.79
      Your hole cards
    • A
    • K
    		     
    Snick Call  £0.04 £0.10 £4.16
    x Call  £0.04 £0.14 £1.92
    Hoppy815 Call  £0.04 £0.18 £3.94
    devonfish5 Raise  £0.26 £0.44 £3.98
    Pam1945 Fold     
    Dunc921 Fold     
    Snick Fold     
    x Call  £0.22 £0.66 £1.70
    Hoppy815 Fold     
    Flop
       
    • 10
    • 5
    • Q
    		     
    x Check     
    devonfish5 Bet  £0.12 £0.78 £3.86
    x Call  £0.12 £0.90 £1.58
    Turn
       
    • 2
    		     
    x Check     
    devonfish5 Check     
    River
       
    • J
    		     
    x All-in  £1.58 £2.48 £0.00
    devonfish5 Call  £1.58 £4.06 £2.28
    x Show
    • 4
    • A
    		   
    devonfish5 Show
    • A
    • K
    		   
    devonfish5 Win Royal Flush £3.75  £6.03
    played this one ok I think. WELL MY WAY ANYWAY
    don't you just love it when they go 'all-in' on river sometimes. he he

    edit; ok I played it bad. too small flop bet  no turn bet, got lucky on river. what if jack hadn't come? do I fold.. again .? maybe. only good thing.. 'things can only get better'   lol
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  • craigcu12craigcu12
    edited January 2014
    nh and for a nl4 villain this is so unusual, in other words keep a note of him for future games
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  • devonfish5devonfish5
    edited January 2014
    In Response to Re: NL4 Thread...January 2014:
    nh and for a nl4 villain this is so unusual, in other words keep a note of him for future games
    Posted by craigcu12
    cheers craig,

    yeah he did it quite a few times today making big river bets like that...made notes.( he went busto in the end I should point out)
    I had AK  one hand flopped the ace he went all-in on river. didn';t know if I should call as it was only the 2nd time he'd done it at that point.
    anyway I folded the best hand probably, I know that now,  I think.  :)
    came good in the end, which I guess is all that matters.

    cheers buddy
    dev
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  • CraigSG1CraigSG1
    edited January 2014
    In Response to Re: NL4 Thread...January 2014:
    In Response to Re: NL4 Thread...January 2014 : Totally disagree. I been playing this level for a few months now and totally crushing it. I can only think of 3 players who seem to know what they are doing. Bluffing 0% of the time is a leak in itself. You just have to find the right frequency. There are so many players on nl4 that are just lose passive and will fold tons to your c-bets etc etc. Its very important to know whos weak passive and who the stations are. We don't want to be checking very often vs lose-passive players and conversly we don't want to be bluffing stations very much, we just bet more thinly vs stations. However you really need to be capping your 3-bet ranges slighty that consist of no bluffs. I bluff heaps on nl4, its just a matter of knowing who you bluff. Also you dont want to be double/treble barreling air much, im just talking mainly about taking pots down uncontested post flop. Double barreling works nicely with hands where we are drawing so have a nice slice of equity, i may treble barrel when a draw has been missed but i dont mind getting caught out as i often get paid with my big hands too. Its essential to know you opponent then ajust accordingly.
    Posted by mugsy78
    I would be interested to know who these 3 players are? I play this level and can think of a few more. Admittedly not many but there are good players there, they just have small BR's or dont like playing too high or whatever.
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  • CraigSG1CraigSG1
    edited January 2014
    Regarding hand above, I think you still have to bet the turn. Your drawing to the nuts on two fronts (and hit both - very nice!) and have overcards plus the nut A high. Betting here atchieves a lot. You win the pot without hitting, you force out weak hands that are beating you such as low PP's and a lot of weak made pairs and your setting yourself a big pot if you do indeed hit your many outs.

    Plus - bet much bigger on the flop for the same reasons mentioned above. 
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  • Lambert180Lambert180
    edited January 2014
    I was gonna come on and give you a load of advice cos just being told to wait for big hands and then bet full pot is horrendous advice, but looks like mugsy has covered it.

    Never bluffing = bad and just missing out on loads of value

    Also I saw you say this earlier in the thread and dunno if someone has pointed it out... your bet sizing should have nothing to do with your bankroll.
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  • mugsy78mugsy78
    edited January 2014
    In Response to Re: NL4 Thread...January 2014:
    I was gonna come on and give you a load of advice cos just being told to wait for big hands and then bet full pot is horrendous advice, but looks like mugsy has covered it. Never bluffing = bad and just missing out on loads of value Also I saw you say this earlier in the thread and dunno if someone has pointed it out... your bet sizing should have nothing to do with your bankroll.
    Posted by Lambert180
    Yeah bet sizing has nothing to do with bankroll. Bet sizing should vary to playing styles, board texture, multi way pots, and what effective stack sizes are etc etc
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  • devonfish5devonfish5
    edited January 2014
    In Response to Re: NL4 Thread...January 2014:
    Regarding hand above, I think you still have to bet the turn. Your drawing to the nuts on two fronts (and hit both - very nice!) and have overcards plus the nut A high. Betting here atchieves a lot. You win the pot without hitting, you force out weak hands that are beating you such as low PP's and a lot of weak made pairs and your setting yourself a big pot if you do indeed hit your many outs. Plus - bet much bigger on the flop for the same reasons mentioned above. 
    Posted by CraigSG1
    thanks craig,

    yeah, my bet sizing is all over the place atm.
    I've got no real direction with my play or game.
    it's only nl4 thank god, and I'm getting away with murder...probably.
    I know I should be betting rather than checking flop and 1/2 pot min too.( BUT WHEN IT COMES TO IT, MY HEAD SAYS ONE THING AND MY BODY DOES ANOTHER... OR MAYBE MY HEADS JUST NOT CONNECTED AFTER ALL.
    .I've loads of bad habits from dym's I guess.
    that's why I'm only playing 1 table too, as I know I'd not get away with it playing any more
     I'm also table selecting well which is getting me through this learning curve.

    thanks again for all the advice mate
    dev
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  • mugsy78mugsy78
    edited January 2014
    In Response to Re: NL4 Thread...January 2014:
    In Response to Re: NL4 Thread...January 2014 : I would be interested to know who these 3 players are? I play this level and can think of a few more. Admittedly not many but there are good players there, they just have small BR's or dont like playing too high or whatever.
    Posted by CraigSG1
    I'm sure there are. The one that stands out for me is a player called sngwizkid who have not saw for a bit. I could named more but those just tilt too much. I will however tell you who is the worst ( i know its douchy but he deserves a mention) and thats some dude called hawaian.
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  • mugsy78mugsy78
    edited January 2014
    In Response to Re: NL4 Thread...January 2014:
    Regarding hand above, I think you still have to bet the turn. Your drawing to the nuts on two fronts (and hit both - very nice!) and have overcards plus the nut A high. Betting here atchieves a lot. You win the pot without hitting, you force out weak hands that are beating you such as low PP's and a lot of weak made pairs and your setting yourself a big pot if you do indeed hit your many outs. Plus - bet much bigger on the flop for the same reasons mentioned above. 
    Posted by CraigSG1
    Agreed.Also we fold in no circumstances here, way too much equity. Deffo bet more on the flop too.
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  • Lambert180Lambert180
    edited January 2014
    Yeah, bet sizing is HUGE in terms of your winrate. Just knowing whether to bet/check/raise/call isn't enough cos you miss out on so much value by betting too small when you can go bigger for value, or betting too big and forcing weaker hands to fold, or by bluffing too big and just wasting money on the times you get called when you could have got the job done cheaper the times they can't call.

    Was gonna go into it here but decided I'm gonna do a new thread all about bet sizing and what factors you should take into account when deciding, so keep ya eyes peeled.
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  • CraigSG1CraigSG1
    edited January 2014
    Thats ok - there easy things to learn. Just do things for a reason, not because its expected. If you dont want to c-bet and would rather give up then do it. No point playing a pot that is out of your control. When you bet for a reason then you will generally put in better bets by default.
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  • devonfish5devonfish5
    edited January 2014
    In Response to Re: NL4 Thread...January 2014:
    I was gonna come on and give you a load of advice cos just being told to wait for big hands and then bet full pot is horrendous advice, but looks like mugsy has covered it. Never bluffing = bad and just missing out on loads of value Also I saw you say this earlier in the thread and dunno if someone has pointed it out... your bet sizing should have nothing to do with your bankroll.
    Posted by Lambert180
    thanks Paul,

    yeah I think I've just covered  bet sizing bit in previous post.
    my game is not in the best shape at the moment, and I'm making mistakes but finding it difficult getting it right.
    obviously with a small br I am playing on the cautious side which I know is not how it should be.
    I'm going to continue to try  improving but it's not coming easy to me.
    it's only a matter of time b4 I get it right, I hope.
    it's like most things, swimming riding a bike or driving a car, it's easy when you know how but a **** to learn.
    cheers
    dev
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