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For the italic part, I can think of several. Amazingly there is not a rakeback comparison site out there yet, mainly because most sites run complicated and somewhat different models, also as soon as you throw in affiliates it's almost impossible to nail down what is what, especially for networks which can have differences skin to skin via affiliates. The next best I could find was a rather decent article written by J Tringer on February of this year. I can't link it as it has other site banners but you have enough information to find it. It compares the top three sites. For the two big ones you're looking at between 15% and 18%, unless you start grinding to SN levels where a bit better than 30% is available. But very very few people can hit those marks, certainly not recreational, semi pro or most pro tournament players. They have another site there which I believe is now part of a network, it has 25% with possibilities of 50% with affiliates. However more digging around the internet will find traffic isn't great to help you achieve those numbers.
I've had a quick scoot around the other sites and far too many articles and the numbers you are saying are just not wildly available or offered solely by the site unless you're getting in a time machine bound for ten years ago. You said decent volume? To hit those marks we are talking much more than decent, and even that is barely offered just by a poker site.
For the bold italic part, for me it's not as black and white as that. I partially agree with some of it, well mainly on one point of the changes which I will detail in my own post. But as I am here, there are positives. A friend who is unable to post on this forum has shown me a detailed breakdown of the real effects. The positive changes are this is a shot in the arm for the SnG recs who achieve a medium to high volume, it's much needed to help the player pool and imo overdue. While they are not quite on par with the cash regs hitting similar marks, the gap is closed somewhat and this is a very positive move. The main ones to take a hit are high (but not the highest) cash grinding regs. I am usually part of this group and I'm ok taking another on the chin here. Personally I don't play for RB and I don't think the drop is too steep.
You have only looked at how these changes affect you. Not recreational players who are the very lifeblood of the game. Just you, because everything should be great for you without a care for the actual ecology of the site or the experience for anyone else.
If you want to play just for RB and a base return, get googling for affiliate sites and the sites they serve, and hope the deal doesn't collapse or the site you are locked into doesn't lose traffic or worse.
Best of luck in your future endeavours.
Let's start with the positives. A good friend of mine unable to post here (loves pocket jacks, Penguins and is always one year too young to go to Vegas) has detailed a thorough breakdown of the real changes players will see. Fairly consistent recreational players and low volume regs will see either negligible changes or a slight increase. The real incentive is to make it into Priority where there is across the board increases if you only just get in or can volume up to get into that first tier in there.
SnG players who get into Prio and above really see some benefits. They all get an increase and as it's been so long since this player pool has really had a positive change, since leaderboards and such were discontinued many moons ago. It's a shot in the arm for that player pool and will hopefully increase traffic again in those areas. Hopefully a monthly leaderboard promo or something similar will be introduced for the MTT players and we can move towards a bit more of an even spread.
The select few at the tip top end (of which I am yet to be a part of) of high level grinders will get a marked increase. For the percentage of the rake they contribute, it's hard to argue against this and the increase seems reasonable.
OK, my two big concerns/asterisks.
1) Those who would earn 500 points and less per week. They are pretty much the lifeblood of any poker site imo. I don't like such a high threshold before any cash return is available. I feel it's too high. Even a quid back is a nice gesture if you just play for fun, it's a nice feeling. I've seen elsewhere talk about the freerolls offered. Some think these will be an absolute boon to the recreational player, and I'm starting to come around to this way of thinking in truth but not without doubts. I think that element may in time bridge the gap and give Recs what they actually want, more recreational tournaments and a shot at a decent prize provided the freerolls are maintained at the least as they are.
Concerning the £2.20 token. This could complement the freeroll argument above. However I feel there are two draw backs here. They should be made cumulative to give the Rec even more incentive to keep their business with the site, because saving the tokens for the big shot is much more appealing. and secondly the choices to spend a single £2.20 are really limited. We keep being told (and I agree with this) that Bounty Hunters are really popular with Recs. There's is not from what I can see a £2.20 BHer. There are £2.30 ones. And please don't say they'll be fine to spring an extra ten pence, if the token is a free tournament then make it a free tourney. Knock the token up to applicable for any game where it is a £2 contribution to the prizepool, the rake has already been paid for with these.
I have concerns in this first area as detailed above but I see ways this could all work and I do have faith that SkyPoker are monitoring this situation and do have recreational players in mind.
However I do have a lack of faith in my second asterisk.
I'm going to be blunt as I have already been longwinded above. I agree affiliate and new player promos are necessary. I agree they do attract new players to the site. I also believe that the part of the playerpool hit negatively by the changes, cash regs who gain 20k-40k points a month, are the one section most likely to see and know about these affiliate sites and deals whereas the vast majority will not come across them. I do not trust that there is not a few Regs who will chance their arm at a cheating second account to take advantage of these new player deals.
And the blunt part, of course I cannot go into which individual cases, but I notice and I see. With these occasions of alledged multiaccounting, I do not have faith that SkyPoker can prevent a significant amount of these potential multiaccounts early enough or at all. And that is my major concern by having those carrots out there combined with these changes.
Thank you for reading.
In one of my previous posts, I mentioned that it is usual to use the midpoint of any new tiers to establish the average effect of these sorts of changes-the table to which Tommy refers is a classic example of this. In the midrange (2000-8000 points) some of the figures given are at the very best point for supporters of the new rakeback in the sense that they are the start of new tiers. To demonstrate:-
1,996 points (499 per week) New £8.80 tokens, old £19.96
(NB-the 3000 points is wrong on the original graph)
7,996 points (1999 per week) New £119.94, old £160
These figures show the high point, and as such would be unfair to use as a comparison, just as the graph was-that is why midpoints tend to give a fairer indication.
There is a significant disadvantage to the volume MTTers on this site-I agree "the real incentive is to make Priority" but, as Matt mentioned earlier, that is not realistic on MTTs alone.
As a sky regular for over 3 years playing one or two tournaments probably 5 nights a week
I currently average 250-300 points a month.
I love sky, any cash bonus I receive is exactly that a bonus.
I don't play free roles but will look at the new scheme and take a view.
The vast majority of rec players like myself will not stop playing, if a couple of pound is
that that important to someone should they be gambling at all.
No one likes change, Sky as a company are not going to introduce a scheme that negatively
impacts on the majority of it's members.
I think that it has been stated that any changes will be reviewed.
Let the new system run for a couple of months, then lets all give input positive and negative.
My Dad told me when I was 3 that life's not fair, it still isn't.
Throwing your toys out of the pram is not the answer.
Win some money and life may seem a little fairer.
Daggers.
We all know what they are suggesting.
When having a debate making up numbers really doesn't help you.
Given what you are suggesting, for the avoidance of any doubt I have the same deal as every other player that didn't sign up through one of the RB deal sites.
I win money from the games I play, rakeback is a bonus. I want a RB system that encourages rec players not mass tabling regs. Rec players are the lifeblood of any site. I haven't looked at the system in detail to know if it encourages these players.
I think about overall return when playing on a site, I could give you 100% RB but if the site was full of the best players in the world you wouldn't play on there.
I have heard their is a £2.20 tournament in the afternoon @2.20 and i think it is a deepstack.
All the best.
Rainman397.
I AVERAGE AROUND 3200 POINTS PER MONTH WHICH NORMALLY GIVES ME 45+ POUNDS IN BONUS.
UNDER THE NEW SCHEME 32OO DIVIDED BY 4 WEEKS = 800 PER WEEK OR 8 POUNDS. TOTALLING 32 POUNDS BONUS.
THIS IS THE SECOND TIME THAT THE SCHEME HAS CHANGED IN 2 YEARS OR THEREABOUTS AND BOTH TIMES MYSELF AND LIKEWISE PLAYERS ARE HIT.
I AM STRONGLY THINKING OF GOING ELSEWHERE.
I've not been playing as much as I used to and feel less connected, but may have lost a bit of poker mojo anyway.
presumably there are figures to compare month/month year/year traffic?
That is my feedback for a humble rec. My world hasn't ended
as long as I can cash prizes in against the sngs I play then fine - but if only 2.20 a pop not so exciting, was that cumulative question ever answered?
all in all, overriding feeling is meh
but that's pretty much my feeling towards sky poker since the channel went - less of a connection
I average about 3300 points per month and now will lose out on about £8 per month as I will only do about 700-850 points per week.
Not really interested in £1k freerolls would rather see rakeback increase slightly especially now that it is 500 points to trigger. Plenty of recreational players will no longer get any kind of rakeback.
March 2013; "450 points this month Sir? Sorry, no cash, no freeroll, no token, no anything for you. Thanks for choosing to play on Sky Poker."
June 2015; "450 points this month Sir? You have earned the right to play in 20x £1,000 freerolls and have been awarded 4x £2.20 tokens. Thanks for choosing to play on Sky Poker".
Did the recs go extinct under C4P? No, though the change to Rewards was much needed and much fairer. So this latest change is hardly a domeday scenario, it's still more rec friendly than C4P.