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Can an old dog learn new tricks?

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  • edited January 2016
    Tony,

    Sorry to hear about your run bad mate, but in the cold light of day in a months time I am sure you will see that its just varience.
    As someone who has played thousands of DYM's with you, I can vouch for the fact you are the last person to be accused of colluding. If anything you play harder against the your regular opponents like myself as you have more reads on us.
    I have only noticed that you have loosened your range slightly since Xmas and you are now seeing more flops in the first few levels. 
    The only time that I have been suprised by your play, and I have noticed that you are not playing your normal tight and successful style is when you are being side-tracked by some forum based dramas.
    Hope you turn it around soon mate.
    You are still in the top three most difficult PL08 opponents on here.

    Be lucky.

    Andrew.
  • edited January 2016
    In Response to Re: Can an old dog learn new tricks?:
    Tony, Sorry to hear about your run bad mate, but in the cold light of day in a months time I am sure you will see that its just varience. As someone who has played thousands of DYM's with you, I can vouch for the fact you are the last person to be accused of colluding. If anything you play harder against the your regular opponents like myself as you have more reads on us. I have only noticed that you have loosened your range slightly since Xmas and you are now seeing more flops in the first few levels.  The only time that I have been suprised by your play, and I have noticed that you are not playing your normal tight and successful style is when you are being side-tracked by some forum based dramas. Hope you turn it around soon mate. You are still in the top three most difficult PL08 opponents on here. Be lucky. Andrew.
    Posted by winshoes
    Thanks Andrew, & yes, when someone is getting uppity on the Forum - they missed a whole hand or whatever, all that UPPER CASE & !!!??? stuff yes, it does distract me somewhat, I find it quite difficult to play 6 tables & Forum Post at the same time, everything gets in a bit of a mess.

    I'm a little puzzled by my January results, but I'm certainly not being chuntery, just thought it might encourage others who are having a relatively rough ride. And there's deffo some play-bad in there, too, one is sometimes the consequence of the other. 

    The 2 things to guards against are.....

    1) Over reacting to a lean spell. 

    2) Auto saying "it is variance". Because it not always variance.
     

    As to Mr Wet Blanket, his actual comment did not bother me one iota. There are over 12,000 games of evidence out there. Of course, in thin liquidity PLO8, we do play the same people time & time again. In fact, here's the stats, this is how many times I have played each of these in a PLO8 DYM.

    Eon, 3,100

    Maca, 2,295

    Alexis74, 2,162

    Whizzewky, 1,065

    MOTHER 1,042

    (You are in 7th place, with 726).
     
    So yes, he's right, we do play each other a lot. And I do fold a lot to Eon. I fold a lot to EVERYONE, lol. 

    What saddened me was not that - it's that such mean-minded people think they can say these things, & generally diss everyone & everything in life. What sour, bitter little people they come across as. 

    Course, at the other extreme, we open the next table and Lady Twaddle is doing her Delia impression & subjecting us all to an endless list of ingredients for tonight's claggy meal.
     
    I'm unsure which is worse.

      
     
  • edited January 2016
    In Response to Re: Can an old dog learn new tricks?:
    In Response to Re: Can an old dog learn new tricks? : That's interesting to a learner like me do you make these decisions based on the player you are playing or is it pre planed before you start the game I find myself once I start something it's hard to change mid game thinking I have built a big enough stack to survive and parking the bus then when I need to get busy again and I start second guessing myself ultimately leading to bad decisions
    Posted by weecheez1

    Hi Weechez, some advice you can take or leave :)

    Never have a plan pre game... just have ranges of cards to fold or raise (I personally do not have a call button pre unless it is opened to me)

    When you have a big enough stack to survive you should not be parking the bus infact quite the opposite you should be applying pressure to the middling stacks you will find yourself cashing more and getting in a ton of less tricky spots.

    Good luck at the tables sir
  • edited January 2016
    I played 2 PL08 games last night, Maca, Weecheez, and the Champ amongst others were on my tables and I thoroughly enjoyed the games, no chuntering, no griping. Was a laugh when the Champ sat out for an orbit " To read a book on strategy" and come back to take charge ...love it.
  • edited January 2016
    Sour and bitter, like a lovely lamb Dhansak.
  • edited January 2016
    In Response to Re: Can an old dog learn new tricks?:
    In Response to Re: Can an old dog learn new tricks? : Hi Weechez, some advice you can take or leave :) Never have a plan pre game... just have ranges of cards to fold or raise (I personally do not have a call button pre unless it is opened to me) When you have a big enough stack to survive you should not be parking the bus infact quite the opposite you should be applying pressure to the middling stacks you will find yourself cashing more and getting in a ton of less tricky spots. Good luck at the tables sir
    Posted by Itsover4u
    Thanks mate all advice is good it's the tricky spots that get me it might be inexperience but I seem to make the wrong choices in these positions but I think my game has come on a long way since I started listening to others don't get me wrong I still make some boo boos but such is life good luck 
  • edited January 2016
    Applying the pressure to middle stacks is all well and good, if you apply the pressure to the right people. The PLO8 tables (especially the £3 games) are full of people who will not fold in this position though. A game can be four handed with one player sitting on 700 chips and sometimes the other two comfortable stacks will still fight back with rubbish.  This is a world apart from Holdem. I sometimes see it hourly, never mind daily.

    edit.
    point in note, just seen it. 4 handed, two safe stacks go at it. First to act has a proper hand, BB could easily fold,is safe, but decides to reraise all-in, even though initial raiser clearly has to call. BB shoved with the monster that is 248K. It happens all the time.
  • edited February 2016
    Could you not just call and see one more card you still have loadsa chips
  • edited February 2016


    Morning Churchy.

    Thanks for posting this.
     
    It's quite interesting actually, so I'll answer in two parts.

    1) As played

    2) The reason you lost the hand.
  • edited February 2016


    As played
     
    It plays itself really. Once you see that flop, you are not going away.

    Don't mind raising my flop bet at all, though I suppose you could peel another card & re-evaluate. Either are fine, but your play was OK.

    It was just unlucky that you missed all those outs at both ends. Huge huge hand on that flop.
     
    Couple of things you may consider here.
     
    What did you put ME on?

    I've not raised pre, I'm out of position, & I have a ton of chips. What can I be betting? It's not nut diamonds, & I'm never gonna play the A-2 draw that way, & I'm not in a "push" spot here am I? So really, I'm almost certain to have a set. You can still take me on, but always try & think why is he betting here, & with what?

    Why even get involved here?

    We are 4 handed, you, Eon & me all have plenty of chips, sjb is the shortie. Why go to war with a big stack, 4 handed, when there is a shortie on the table? We should ALL be folding to each other, but piling the pressure on Mr Shortie. 4 handed THAT IS ALL THAT MATTERS. The shortie. Squeeze the shortie, starve him of spots, don't limp into his blind (raise or fold), & the 3 big stacks fold to each other.   
     
  • edited February 2016

    The reason you lost the hand.

    Now look again at this hand.

    There is something very, very obvious here as to why you lost this hand.
     
    What is it?

    Here's your starter for ten.

    Most problems in poker - or life really - start with a very small mistake. That mistake then escalates into a big problem.
     
    So look at your hand, look at my hand,. & tell me what the little mistake was.
     
    If anyone else wants to chime in, go ahead. This is a cracking example of an own goal, & losing a DYM we should have won.
      
     
  • edited February 2016


    Meanwhile, as I dispense advice, on the basis that I know what I'm talking about........

    I've not updated my results lately, as it might look like I'm having a moan, turning into a MTT player "woe is me", but truth is, I'm knocking it in a treat.
     
    I expect to make around £100 per month, but in October - December I had a heater & cleared £450 profit.
     
    Since 1st January 2016? £90 DOWN.
     
    It's just bad everything, play bad, run bad, concentrate bad, & bad bad. Oh, & bad.
     
    January was easily my worst month, & it's continued into February.
     
    Anyway, I've sent myself a memo.

    "Sort it out"     
  • edited February 2016

    Now a question for Churchy.

    Sometimes, you do THE most unexpected things, & as someone who likes to understand "why" it intrigues me.

    Only one £10 game ran last night, barely a handful have run all week, so they are rare beasts, & we are generally on our best behaviour. I mean, I know it sounds obvious, but a £10 game is 3 x £3 games or 2 x £5 games rolled into one, so they make a big difference to our results when we mostly play the smaller games.
     
    Anyway, last night this £10 game was a weird one. One play permanently away, never sat in all game, someone had bust early, another player was just splashing around & limping into every pot. Then there was you, Eon & me. And you busted Eon in spectacular fashion.

    I only saw part of the hand play out, but you had total spanners.

    How did all the chips get in with that hand?

    I'm definitely not dissing you, I'm just interested in your line of thinking. I mean, when Eon pots it, he is never bluffing, he is super solid. Maybe plays low hands stronger than most, but, like Maca, when they start going pot-pot-pot, we are usually in shocking shape.    
     
  • edited February 2016
    Imo your decision here is based on the chipcount for you, Tikay and shortie. 

    If your both well clear of shortie its a fold.
    If Tikay is close to shortie Im calling.
    If your close to shortie then its 50/50 if your calling, I'd probably call in this spot.

    Ger
  • edited February 2016
    Good question Tikay, I have noticed there are some players that quite easily go to war in these spots. It may be an ego thing.
    It may also be setting a marker for future games to make players be super tight against them in future games in these spots - kind of a fear factor thing. While the later may work sometimes I dont think it is the best strategy in the long run.

    Ger
  • edited February 2016
    In Response to Re: Can an old dog learn new tricks?:
    Well as i asked earlier what do you think was i right too shove this hand? For me it is a instant reraise as i have so many draws for the hi&lo that was just my instinct. So in your opinion is it a fold or shove? Hand History #1000310070 (21:08 05/02/2016) Player Action Cards Amount Pot Balance eon1961 Small blind   75.00 75.00 2872.50 tikay1 Big blind   150.00 225.00 3030.00   Your hole cards 5 2 A Q       churchy18 Call   150.00 375.00 2572.50 sjb10000 Fold         eon1961 Fold         tikay1 Check         Flop     8 3 Q       tikay1 Bet   375.00 750.00 2655.00 churchy18 Raise   1500.00 2250.00 1072.50 tikay1 All-in   2655.00 4905.00 0.00 churchy18 All-in   1072.50 5977.50 0.00 tikay1 Unmatched bet   457.50 5520.00 457.50 tikay1 Show 8 K 8 5       churchy18 Show 5 2 A Q       Turn     3       River     9       tikay1 Win high Full House, 8s and 3s 5520.00   5977.50   No qualifying low hand     k
    Posted by churchy18
    Hi Bri
    Just raise pre
    Hand over, move on to the next one.
  • edited February 2016
    In Response to Re: Can an old dog learn new tricks?:
    In Response to Re: Can an old dog learn new tricks? : Hi Bri Just raise pre Hand over, move on to the next one.
    Posted by VespaPX
    BOOMIO, we have our winner.

    Look ay my hand - K-8-8-5 - it's utter & complete tosh. It's not a hand. Nothing, just a pile of poo. I'd not make up the Small Blind at 10-20 with that.
     
    Brian only has to breathe on his chips pre-flop & my hand is in the bin. I guarantee I'd never play that hand (in these circumstances) EVER.

    Brian raises pre, I snap muck, next case.

    Its that simple. But that little mistake - the limp - was the WHOLE problem here, not anything else.  And Brian had a lovely raising hand, too. 

    We all do these daft things sometimes - me more than most. But they are the difference between profit & loss. We know that almost nobody can exceed a 60% win rate in these things, so these little errors make all the difference.  
  • edited February 2016
    Saw this thread this morning and thought I must be missing something here, what was Tikay doing in hand with that rubbish? (???, ???? just for effect) Then realised you had limped. As greater minds than mine have said that, my friend, was your undoing.
  • edited February 2016
    Regarding line of thinking, I lost one last night that I don't understand at all.
    I can't remember the blind level, it wasn't late though as I was the first player out the game.
    I flopped the (made, not draw) nut flush alongside a nut low draw, it all went pot-pot-pot-pot until they were all-in and my opponent turned over 2 pair, no low draw.
    Irrespective of the fact he hit his house and scooped, I'd love to know what he thought I had and why he played it like that.



  • edited February 2016
    In Response to Re: Can an old dog learn new tricks?:
    Good question Tikay, I have noticed there are some players that quite easily go to war in these spots. It may be an ego thing. It may also be setting a marker for future games to make players be super tight against them in future games in these spots - kind of a fear factor thing. While the later may work sometimes I dont think it is the best strategy in the long run. Ger
    Posted by gerardirl

    Ego, alcohol and an E-Number driven inability to fold.
    I'm much more inclined to think it's an ego/lack of understanding of standard dym play, rather than setting up an image for later.
    Just my opinion, but I'm usually bang on the money. Unless I'm totally wrong and talking out my doofer.
    Obviously.


  • edited February 2016
    Just to change the subject, i'm suprised no-one has mentioned "lucky" Hendo winning the freeroll last night.
    WP mate
  • edited February 2016
    (his) K8 vs A8 last hand was a beauty!
    Well done Hendo.
    xx
  • edited February 2016


    Oh yes, well done hendo, he's coming to the UKPC from a chuffing FREEROLL.

    Gt8 stuff, or, to use his own word...

    sigh
  • edited February 2016
    In Response to Re: Can an old dog learn new tricks?:
    Saw this thread this morning and thought I must be missing something here, what was Tikay doing in hand with that rubbish? (???, ???? just for effect) Then realised you had limped. As greater minds than mine have said that, my friend, was your undoing.
    Posted by Enut
    Is there really any need for that childish uneducated stupidity?

    Saturday morning, everyone is chilling, & then you rev me up with that stuff.

    Get outa here.
     
    I got an e-mail yesterday, 5 sentences, 5 exclamation marks,. What DO they teach kids at school these days? Certainly not written English.
  • edited February 2016
    In Response to Re: Can an old dog learn new tricks?:
    Regarding line of thinking, I lost one last night that I don't understand at all. I can't remember the blind level, it wasn't late though as I was the first player out the game. I flopped the (made, not draw) nut flush alongside a nut low draw, it all went pot-pot-pot-pot until they were all-in and my opponent turned over 2 pair, no low draw. Irrespective of the fact he hit his house and scooped, I'd love to know what he thought I had and why he played it like that.
    Posted by Macacgirl1
    You & I are very alike in these things. Play 30 DYM's a day, lose between 12 & 18 of them, day after day, so it's not like we are bothered by a beat here & there. we'll lose thousands of DYM's this year, so losing one is not even an irritation.

    But the "what were they thinking?" absolutely intrigues me.

    I got called last night, effectively all-in - we both had playable stacks by 10-8-8-2. That ranks as 4,953rd out of 5,300 hands in the PLO8 Hand Rankings. 

    Why would anyone think that made sense, & would win more often that it would lose?

    God bless these guys, they are our long term profit, but I'd love to understand the thinking.  
     
  • edited February 2016
    In Response to Re: Can an old dog learn new tricks?:
    In Response to Re: Can an old dog learn new tricks? : Ego, alcohol and an E-Number driven inability to fold. I'm much more inclined to think it's an ego/lack of understanding of standard dym play, rather than setting up an image for later. Just my opinion, but I'm usually bang on the money. Unless I'm totally wrong and talking out my doofer. Obviously.
    Posted by Macacgirl1
    QFT
  • edited February 2016
    Got to give my tuppence worth here at least it wasn't me in both cases lol
  • edited February 2016
    Churchy

    I blame the bucky
  • edited February 2016
    In Response to Re: Can an old dog learn new tricks?:
    Just to change the subject, i'm suprised no-one has mentioned "lucky" Hendo winning the freeroll last night. WP mate
    Posted by VespaPX

    Thank you very much Mick, skill game obviously :-) (still feel for the other lad in that final hand)

    What a great bunch of people, was so nice to have all the well wishers appear on the FT, really means a lot.

    Huge thank you to everyone.

    The 'sigh' lattes are on me TK ;-)
  • edited February 2016
    "we'll lose thousands of DYM's this year"

    I hope not, I'm only here for another week until we come back in early November.
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