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PLO8 DYM's - Tips, Advice, & Help Thread
We now have a thriving community here playing PLO8 DYM's, but to many, the game is a mystery.
Lots of players play it well though, & like to help newbies out.
So if you have a question about PLO8, DYM's or otherwise, post it here, & I'm sure the regulars &/or myself will try & help out.
ANYONE can ask or answer the questions.
I'll get the ball rolling with a few hints which, I hope are helpful. They are mainly aimed at the PLO8 newbie, especially in DYM's, but we can deal with ANY PLO8 stuff really.
Comments
We ideally want BALANCED hands.
That means they have the ability to win both Hi, & Low pots.
A-2-K-Q can win BOTH or EITHER pots.
A-K-Q-J, or any high only hand, can scoop, but can NEVER win the Low.
Other hands which can only win the high are, for example....
A-A-9-9
10-10-J-J
8-9-10-J.
These are good PLO hands, but bad PLO8 hands.
If you have to play them, ideally we want to be at the late stages, with big blinds, & get it heads up. Multi-way they are poo.
Killer Cards
7, 8, 9 & 10 are known as KILLER CARDS, as they generally kill the value of your hand.
We can almost never win the Low or the High with these, as we are the wrong end of both.
In practice, if we have more than one of those cards in our hand, it's a pre-flop fold.
OK, we don't mind, say, A-2-7-8, especially DS, but generally, these killer cards should be avoided if we hold 2 or more of them.
And if we have 3 or 4 of them in our hand? MUCK THEM PRE.
You'll lose more money, over time, with these, than ANY other holdings.
A-2-3-4 type hands.
This is not a point that all agree on, but late stage, we can raise with these, as at least half the time, we don't get called. If we do get called, we are pretty much a lock for the Low IF it comes.
Personally, late stage, I do raise with these, as I know I'll only get looked up 50% of the time at best, probably far less.
Call a raise with them, late stage? Not for me, no, as we lose the ability to force a fold, which is the real value. We HAVE to hit now.
Really, this is a general DYM or even poker matter - always better to be the agressor than the caller.
We can RAISE with much wider ranges than we can call with.
Chasing the Low
After killer cards, most money is lost chasing lows.
Lows are nice, we like chasing lows, & they are easy to hit.
But....
If you miss the flop, It comes, say, 2 high cards, GIVE IT UP. You are being freerolled here.
At BEST, you are pulling to half the pot, so you are only getting back what you put in. That's a short cut to Carey Street.
We have A-2, with a nut suit, but miss the flop, it is so tempting to call for another card. And so often we miss. Some folks even call the turn bet still needing a low card. Don't do it, ever.
I know, it's frustrating to give it up, but the earlier you fold, the better, as you almost never profit from this play.
If we have the betting lead, yeah, by all means bet, the villain is probably on the low draw too, so he has to fold, but call, never.
Thanks mate, & love having you on the Tables, you are great fun.
First Community Post, too - welcome.
You got any tips or advice?
SCOOPIO
Never forget, the key to winning PLO8 is to play for the SCOOP.
The SCOOP is when you win BOTH pots.
Inevitably, we enter most pots thinking or hoping we can win both. Once we see the flop, & we know we can't win both, give it up, unless you have got yourself pot-stuck, or think you can nick it.
Playing for half the pot, in a 2 player hand, makes NO SENSE.
3 way? Better to be on the High hand, as most likely the other 2 are on the low. We get three quarters, they get to share peanuts.
Don't take this TOO literally, if we have one end locked heads up, pot pot pot all day. Buty only if we are GUARANTEED half or more.
3 way, with A-2 & a made low, we are often going to get quartered, especially if one player squeezes. We have to call, but it's a bad spot.
Try to go for SCOOPIO.
Just try & think of Caroline.
Nut-Nut? Softly, softly, then BOOM
Our ideal scenario is when we have a lock on both ends.
This can be, say, the nut flush, & wheel or nut low, or, say, a long straight, Ace to 6 or 7.
These are quite complex spots, but the more callers we have, the better. WE MUST NOT LOSE THEM. They are almost always on the same low, or a worse flush with the low.
So on the flop & turn, softly softly, don't bet them out whatever you do, try & keep them, either by check calling, or betting very small. In NLHE, we bet to protect our hand, build the pot, or bluff. It's different in PLO8.
On the river, make them PAY. Bet the pot, or re-raise the max. They won't fold the nut low, & the bigger the pot, the more we are going to get via our three quartering them.
These are the dream spots in PLO8. Maximise them.
Some great advice so far though, I hope to see lots of hands posted too so we can see the correct or best way to play in certain spots.
Good stuff starting to be Posted already, keep it coming lads.
If it helps.....
I'm sure some of Team PLO8, those who play regularly, will always be happy to sit at a 60p DYM, or 2p-49 PLO8 Cash Table to get some affordable practice & experience, & then talk it through afterwards.
Keep Your Powder Dry
The early levels of a DYM can be great fun, splashing around in pots, but just remember, 6 handed means nothing - the game is about one thing only - being effective when we are 4 handed. If you can build a stack early, great stuff, but it does not count for a deal 6 handed.
NOTHING ELSE MATTERS.
When we get 4 handed, the game starts proper.
Usually, we have around 10 bigs, (150-300), or 7.5 Bigs if 200-400.
Now its time to play.
NEVER limp.
NEVER flat call.
We have 2 options - POT, or FOLD. Nothing else.
We change gear now, to, & widen our range considerably. If the pot is unopened, & we have a half decent 2 way hand including an Ace - POT IT.
Try & be the aggressor, too. WE can POT with a medium hand, but it's tough & often wrong to call with a decent hand. BE THE RAISER NOT THE CALLER.
Keep an eye on the shortie(s) too. No point banging heads with Billy Big Stack if some guy is sat there with 2 Bigs. Keep out of trouble, we can win this by passing.
The game is won or lost at this stage.
To begin with it was starting hands but now it is mainly my post flop play. It has taken me a while to realise that your hand strength has to be super strong most of the time, such as 2 pair hands that are good a lot of the time in holdem but are often beat in PLO8. I'm also often chasing draws which end up being beat anyway!!!
Like I said though, I'll get there and it really is a fun game.........plus I like a challenge!
EDIT: I will be playing the PLO8 mtt's tonight though. They are a good way to learn too as there is lot's of play, haven't had a cash yet but did come close last time.......watch this space!
Not that its doing me any good.
I can seriously say i can't remember the last DYM i cashed in.
Getting too many river beats at the moment, just don't know what to do.
May have to find another hobby i think :-(
Many good points that I will try to take on board
Many players seem to be in every hand especially new players to the game.This is not going to get any respect for your hand from experienced players.It is more advisable to wait for a while and when you do play a hand play it offensively rather than defensively.You have to make players cautious of you but when you are re-raised it is always player dependant
(using notes from past encounters) as to what your next move is.Until you build up player notes on most of the regulars you should be very cautious because they will eat you alive (although usually in a friendly manner with the odd exception such as chuckles).In time you will have hours of fun without it costing the Earth, maybe even making a wee profit.
Enjoy your time at the tables,
Eon
Note the players who will open pots with any pp in their hand and then it allows you to gauge your own hand strength vs someone with say TT/88 in their hand. Remember its a preflop game in the late stages and pick your spots.
I can't answer you Matt, as I don't know what ICM and fold equity is! Well, I probably do but I'd call it something else.
Ok, my TOP TIP
For some extremely strange reason, a lot of PLO8 players appear to have no raise button. Even in the later stages of a DYM when it should be an obvious shove or fold situation. Ok, so a certain percentage of the limpers will usually snap call if you pot raise them, a certain percentage will usually fold if you pot raise them. Take player notes when starting to play, you will see this happen at tables all the time. Knowing who is likely to do what, is a huge advantage.
Secondly, likewise, a lot of players do not have a fold button pre flop. To be blunt, I don't believe a lot of players have any sort of concept or understanding as to what a good starting hand is, or if they do, they don't care. So, if you raise them, they are at minimum going to call and often will come over the top whilst holding a weak hand. Knowing who these players are is absolutely 100% vital. You can't steal their blinds with a nonsense hand yourself, as they will gladly call with nonsense. I colour code these players red, the only colour I use actually. I can see at a glance my table position in relation to the lunatics and I immediately know who not to make a move against.
Unfortunately, knowing who does what, will only come from experience, there's no quick fix.
Finally, I don't think anyone has mentioned losing yet. I don't want to scare anyone away from the game, but it is extremely easy to lose this game. It is extremely easy to lose lots of games in a short period of time. Playing perfectly, doing what you should be doing, when you should be doing it, all the time, does not mean you will win. I know of course that NLH has it's share of running bad stories, bad beat stories, but watch out kiddo, unless you have played a lot of PLO8, you ain't seen nowt yet! If you are prone to tilting, save your money, PLO8 isn't for you.
Tremendous Post by Twiglet Lady.
As she notes, amongst other things, many players lack an understanding of " Preferred Hand Ranges" in PLO8.
We can address that on this thread.
Worst losing streak for me ever without doing much wrong.
Luckily i don't tilt at the tables, just accept it for what it is.
Won't put me off playing though ! :-)
From my point of view I love the game, I especially love how friendly it is here on Sky. I am a rubbish cash player, a reasonably competent MTT player and, I think, a losing PLO8 STT player although one day I will keep some records and find out! I play the PLO8 STTs for the fun and banter and play well within my bankroll so don't mind losing the odd few £s, I am probably amongst the easy money at the table!
Here's a few tips from me (for what it's worth) on hand rankings:-
The best hand pre flop in PLO8 is AA23 double suited (ds) if you can get this all in pre flop then do so. Other hand types (hopefully in some sort of order, although I haven't checked) are:-
AA2x, AA3x AA4x etc etc remember that the low hand is very important so A2 for the low is far more likely to win the low than A3 and this becomes more relevant the further into the pack you go, A8 for example is unlikely to win you the low.
AAxx - with no low - remember these cannot win ANY low so you are only playing for the high only, but this is certainly a hand you can and probably should go to war with in the later stages.
KK23, KK23, QQ23, QQ24 - hands with a high pair and non nut low - basically these can be good two way hands and you can play them but be wary, post flop any ace means you may have lost the high and any A2 or A3 out there means that you may not have, or be drawing to the nut low. As you see these hands can be trouble. In my view if you can see a cheap flop early then they can be worth playing but don't get 'married' to them. Obviously late on you can push with them but beware, if you're called your probably not gong to be a favorite.
2345, 2346, & other low only drawing hands - remember you are dreading any 2 or 3 high card flop so again try not to get commited with them. On the plus side you can scoop with 2345 on boards like A678x so they can have potential.
AKQJ, AKQ10, AQJ10 and other High only hands - again may win you a big pot early on but most good players won't get too attached to these holdings unless they can get in cheaply and they hit the flop hard.
9988, 10987, 8877 8865 etc - hands with middle cards - these are pretty much garbage in PLO8 and you probably shouldn't be playing them at any stage in a STT. However they do get played and there's nothing more frustrating than getting AA23 all in pre against 101099 and see your opponent hit a set on the flop and no low redraw!
All hands in PLO8 are much stronger when double suited (eg 2 hearts and 2 diamonds) and much weaker when they have no suits and therefore NO chance of hitting a flush.
Remember the dynamics of your hand and, importantly, your opponent's hand can change dramatically after the flop. In the later stages that may not be so important as you are trying to either pick up the blinds or get pot committed pre flop but it certainly can be early on.
That's my input, just on had rankings, for now and I'm sure others can add to or indeed correct anything I've written.
Still a long way to go though.......lot's of spots I'm unsure of still. Like the hand below.
1. Am I OK calling in the sb? Should I be raising or just folding?
2. How is the rest of the hand? Should I be check/folding on the turn?