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^^^^
Hi Cheezy,
This is where Hold 'Em & Omaha differ.
In Hold 'Em, if the board contains quads, Ace high wins. A lower pair - say, KK - would lose. In NLH, we can use ANY 5 cards - the entire board, 4 of the board & 1 from our hand, or 2 from our hand.
In Omaha, it's completely different - we MUST use 2 of our hole cards. So if the board contains quads, in effect it only contains THREE of a kind, not 4, as we must use 2 of our hole cards.
So, anyone with a pair in their hand would have a full house.
So if the board is 7-7-7-7-4, & we have A-2-9-9, we have a full house, "sevens full". Someone with a bigger pair would beat us.
I would possibly raise the flop for 90 for a couple of reasons, #1 pot control, #2 it telegraphs your hand slightly less as many will think you don't have top set because you didn't pot it. This can result in some players protecting q9 for top 2 pair or mid or bottom sets and repotting at you. In that case I am happy to repot again as it will often chase out straight drawing hands and dry nut or king high flush draws and have you all in versus the type of range you are happy to play for stacks against here.
It is a subtle difference but amazing how often when you bet the full pot here that lower sets and 2 pair which you are happy to play against will flat call and then the scare cards hit and your left unsure how to procede.
As played, on the turn it is a check for me. Firstly for pot control and even if they pot back, with the added flush draw and possibility of 2 other players calling and implied odds you can call the 480 knowing you can fold on horror rivers to heavy action. As played I would have Tikay on the straight as he has a player behind him and you have made clear you have a big hand so I think he has to have the goods here, possibly with redraws (which he does). This leaves you really just drawing for the board to pair. It is fair to say you have some odds because you have 2 others all in but it has turned into a big gamble situation for stacks which is less than ideal in a DYM.
In a MTT it would be better as the added equity is worth more with a steeper prize structure than a DYM although I would still try have a bit more control. I would often make some kind of bet on the flop in a MTT and even here in a DYM; there is a case however for checking the flop to gather more information on how the hand will procede, instill pot control and underrepresent your hand. I would however be betting for about 90 chips most of the time on the flop and check/calling the turn in this spot.
As always, lots of caveats such as the players in the pot with you, table position etc etc
Ha, interesting spot, that.
Love flops like that with my hand, especially with just 2 low cards by the turn, cracking scoop spot.
you can't let me have the last word, shirley.
Tikay has prompted some interesting NLHE DYM discussion so thought I would give this a little bump with a general question which different players may have very different takes on.
PLO8 DYM 6max - We are 5 handed and the table is neither overly aggro or tight. We are halfway through the 150-300 level (levels are 5 minutes long).
Question: Lets assume we have 3000 chips and the other 4 players have relatively level stacks (around 2250 each). What should our general approach be here?
Some points to consider when deciding our general approach...
What is our opening range?
What size is our opening range?
What is our calling range?
What is our 3 betting range?
How are these factors affected by position in each hand?
Advantages/disadvantages of being either 'tight' or 'loose'?
Edit: I will hold back on my personal thoughts until hopefully we have a few others chiming in.
I am quite willing to divulge my thoughts if others are though so not a one way street
I personally don't mind because I would like to hope I can adapt if someone thinks I am playing x y or z way. Also a lot of the people who play the DYM's don't read the thread and there always seems to be a one upmanship versus some of the regs anyways
Also I am not really certain there is a 'correct' answer. Several very different approaches may yields similar results depending on the players style etc.
Joking
I was hoping more when I asked the question for general thoughts on play at these stages and suggesting just to 'bear in mind' rages etc. I wasn't really hoping for exact ranges to be posted for the reasons you both pointed out
My own thoughts on this...
I agree with Phantom that this is such a tricky stage in DYM's. I also feel that there isn't a 'correct answer' or 'correct ranges', especially in PLO8 DYM's. I mean if we are playing a lot of the same players and sticking to the same shove/fold ranges then our hands are almost face up. Other players around us will obviously adapt if we are playing regularly together. So where in some instances you may get away with shove/fold chart type play long term in SNG's, I think this is much tougher to do in PLO8 DYM's with a lot of regs.
I think a more fluid style that adapts to whatever other players perceive your image and range to be is much more +ev than fixed 'rules' on what to play and when to play it. The drawback here though is obviously that much more thought is required on every action in isolation which makes playing mass tables a bit more difficult. I notice when I play the 'numbers games' and have 5 or 6 tables open or a few DYM's and a few MTT's that my roi starts to fall sharply. So I guess personally I need to play 1 or 2 less tables and play hands a bit more in a vacuum and try to play in accordance with my perceived image.
My own magic number for being able to do this is around 3 tables. I have 40+ tabled in years gone by but it just turns into button smashing and a bit like playing whack-a-mole. After tens of thousands of SNG's on other sites I noticed if I go over 3 tables then I can't follow the action as closely as is ideal and my roi starts to drop off sharply. This is something I think I need to keep in mind in future playing these...
I wasn't certain what others would say and thus posed the question but I was leaning more towards being aggressive generally at this stage when I posted the question. I still think this is 'generally' the case as stack maintenance is more important than sometimes seems apparent, even in DYM's. Otherwise with blinds rising rapidly we can end up with no fold equity, half our stack plunged in via the BB and having to call with any 4 due to the odds and hope for the best. Obviously though this strategy goes out the window if everyone thinks you are prepared to raise with 4 christmas cards and you are being called all over the place and are ending up all in too often.
I guess IMO it is more about adapting to every table individually then.
I think my own game is more suited to regular SNG's and MTT's though as I probably over emphasise the importance of stack building and stack maintenance which while it is still important in a DYM, it is obviously 'less important' in a DYM than when compared to a regular SNG or MTT.