Well this thread has done some good for me............finally cashed in a DYM!! Still a long way to go though.......lot's of spots I'm unsure of still. Like the hand below. 1. Am I OK calling in the sb? Should I be raising or just folding? 2. How is the rest of the hand? Should I be check/folding on the turn? waller02 Small blind 50.00 50.00 1779.99 sandy562 Big blind 100.00 150.00 3570.01 Your hole cards 7 9 7 J countdown7 Fold john10878 Fold kimey1710 Fold waller02 Call 50.00 200.00 1729.99 sandy562 Check Flop 9 9 10 waller02 Bet 150.00 350.00 1579.99 sandy562 Call 150.00 500.00 3420.01 Turn A waller02 Bet 300.00 800.00 1279.99 sandy562 Call 300.00 1100.00 3120.01 River 4 waller02 Check sandy562 Check waller02 Show 7 9 7 J sandy562 Show 9 5 Q 2 sandy562 Win high Three 9s 1100.00 4220.01 No qualifying low hand Posted by waller02
Horrible starting hand - bin it ! Unless you have good notes on BB, that he will fold a lot - then raise to steal. Sometimes you just have to give the BB a walk.
In Response to Re: PLO8 DYM's - Tips, Advice, & Help Thread : Horrible starting hand - bin it ! Unless you have good notes on BB, that he will fold a lot - then raise to steal. Sometimes you just have to give the BB a walk. Posted by VespaPX
In dyms where survival is key aggression can pay dividends. plo8 is a very drawing game so you don't need the nuts just a hand with equity. The folds will pay for the outdraws. Only an experiment at the moment but it's working ok. Posted by GELDY
In Response to Re: PLO8 DYM's - Tips, Advice, & Help Thread : From Level 1 or later when the blinds are bigger? Posted by VespaPX
from the first hand, although you are now looking for folds post flop or calls when you are ahead. If you are already Billy big stack by the time you get to 4 handed then the war is almost won.
In Response to Re: PLO8 DYM's - Tips, Advice, & Help Thread : from the first hand, although you are now looking for folds post flop or calls when you are ahead. If you are already Billy big stack by the time you get to 4 handed then the war is almost won. Posted by GELDY
If you are the big stack , 4 handed, would you still be applying pressure on 2nd & 3rd stacks? Or just let them get on with it against the shorty?
as i said this is still in its experimental stage so please don't take anything as gospel or even as sensible.
standard dym play would have you chillaxing and letting the others fight it out. but this can go on a long time (re Tikay's comment of blinds sometimes at 400/800 even with 5 peeps left) so for now i am maintaining the aggressive concept, but with adjustments. ie seeing more flops cheaply if i can, attacking shorties when i have good hands etc.
as i said this is still in its experimental stage so please don't take anything as gospel or even as sensible. standard dym play would have you chillaxing and letting the others fight it out. but this can go on a long time (re Tikay's comment of blinds sometimes at 400/800 even with 5 peeps left) so for now i am maintaining the aggressive concept, but with adjustments. ie seeing more flops cheaply if i can, attacking shorties when i have good hands etc. Aggression uber alles, and all the time. Posted by GELDY
I would not recommend this style, however, if you have any risk of connection problems, or of being distracted. as so many of your chips are going in you need to be in control!
In dyms where survival is key aggression can pay dividends. plo8 is a very drawing game so you don't need the nuts just a hand with equity. The folds will pay for the outdraws. Only an experiment at the moment but it's working ok. Posted by GELDY
Your increased aggression is the key Geldy, rather than anything else.
I'm not so hot with aggression, at least not until we go 4 handed then it's chocks away, but your all round aggression is a potent weapon, & is why you are - I hope & assume - doing so much better.
DYM, Is this a fold here, me and Random had a bit of difference of opinion. I have to say that I had a long dwell before raising. Can Random fold to my raise?
ActionCardsAmountPotBalance67Bhoys Small blind 100.00 100.00 2880.00 MITCH38 Big blind 200.00 300.00 960.00 Your hole cards K 2 2 A RandomRaise 700.00 1000.00 1520.00 pj_from_uk Fold eon1961 Fold 67Bhoys Raise 2200.00 3200.00 680.00 MITCH38 Fold RandomAll-in 1520.00 4720.00 0.00 67Bhoys Unmatched bet 80.00 4640.00 760.00 67Bhoys Show K 2 2 A RandomShow 2 A Q 4 Flop J J 8 Turn 10 River 8 67Bhoys Win high Two Pairs, Jacks and 2s 4640.00 5400.00 No qualifying low hand PrevClose windowNext
If we were down to 4 players at these blind levels, then I would maybe fold, but at 100/200 and 5 players left, I reckon that given the relative chipstacks, that worst case I'm still in, semi worst case split pot. But at 100/200 I'm looking to be aggressive, especially 5 handed.
I am going to assign Random a good raising range for this exercise, given the names I recognise I would assume this is a £10 game and the standard will be good.
We obviously have a good hand, we treat the other 2 as a 'blocker' not a potential improving card.
we have no low back up, however the likelihood of the other 2's spiking are lowered (we can also be fairly certain that the other player holds an Ace and a low card, likely a 2 or 3) so that gives us probably good enough odds for our low hand.
High hand is a great drawing hand, again there are slight issues we are not double suited, but really we can't expect everything :-)
So onto the situation, the BB is short and UTG has potted, he needs to get through 3 players AND will have no fold equity if the BB repots, so he is committed to putting at least 1160 in, sure their is an argument that he may be trying to steal the blinds.......but given what I descibed above that seems unlikely. Is your hand strong enough to play for stacks, is the situation worth it, can we wait for another spot? lots of questions to ask.
I think it is very marginal at best, in an MTT I m probably getting my freak on, in a DYM i am not so sure.
If we were down to 4 players at these blind levels, then I would maybe fold, but at 100/200 and 5 players left, I reckon that given the relative chipstacks, that worst case I'm still in, semi worst case split pot. But at 100/200 I'm looking to be aggressive, especially 5 handed. Posted by 67Bhoys
Being aggressive is fine, but you will have no fold equity vs Random. As I said, even vs a loosish opening range we'll only have 50% equity here and slightly less than 1/3 of the time our opponent will scoop the pot leaving us very short.
Not to mention, us re-shipping might lead BB to fold a hand he would otherwise go with (where we could potentially be down to 4 players left)
I am going to assign Random a good raising range for this exercise, given the names I recognise I would assume this is a £10 game and the standard will be good. We obviously have a good hand, we treat the other 2 as a 'blocker' not a potential improving card. we have no low back up, however the likelihood of the other 2's spiking are lowered (we can also be fairly certain that the other player holds an Ace and a low card, likely a 2 or 3) so that gives us probably good enough odds for our low hand. High hand is a great drawing hand, again there are slight issues we are not double suited, but really we can't expect everything :-) So onto the situation, the BB is short and UTG has potted, he needs to get through 3 players AND will have no fold equity if the BB repots, so he is committed to putting at least 1160 in, sure their is an argument that he may be trying to steal the blinds.......but given what I descibed above that seems unlikely. Is your hand strong enough to play for stacks, is the situation worth it, can we wait for another spot? lots of questions to ask. I think it is very marginal at best, in an MTT I m probably getting my freak on, in a DYM i am not so sure. HH Posted by HENDRIK62
I thought it unlikely that Random would have a 2 in their hand , definitely an Ace, possibly 2 Aces. I was thinking possibilities were AA3* or AK3* etc, with some kind of suited element.
On the counterfeit of my low cards, an Ace would give me top pair and a 2 would give me bottom set, not ideal, but if I'm putting Random on an Ace, then there are only 2 Aces and 2 deuces left in the deck.
I know this was a marginal spot, but with a limited amount of time available to make a decision, it is difficult to run through every +EV or -EV. I decided to re-raise because I was out of position, and also decided, if necessary, to play for stacks, mainly because I had Random covered and I thought my hand had good high and low possibilities
Also in my mind, when the blinds reach 100/200, you are going to have to flip sooner rather than later, and this was as good a hand as any to go to war with.
Couple of questions.... 1. What would you do in villains place? 2. What would you do in the same position but with each others cards? Posted by VespaPX
1) Given the initial raise, its a call
2) If I had Randoms cards in my positon, I don't like my high draw, so prob fold.
DYM, Is this a fold here, me and Random had a bit of difference of opinion. I have to say that I had a long dwell before raising. Can Random fold to my raise? Action Cards Amount Pot Balance 67Bhoys Small blind 100.00 100.00 2880.00 MITCH38 Big blind 200.00 300.00 960.00 Your hole cards K 2 2 A Random Raise 700.00 1000.00 1520.00 pj_from_uk Fold eon1961 Fold 67Bhoys Raise 2200.00 3200.00 680.00 MITCH38 Fold Random All-in 1520.00 4720.00 0.00 67Bhoys Unmatched bet 80.00 4640.00 760.00 67Bhoys Show K 2 2 A Random Show 2 A Q 4 Flop J J 8 Turn 10 River 8 67Bhoys Win high Two Pairs, Jacks and 2s 4640.00 5400.00 No qualifying low hand Prev Close window Next Posted by 67Bhoys
What a VERY interesting hand.......;)
In answer to the question, no, "random" cannot, ever, fold here, having already potted it. We also know his likely range is "solid" at worst, he's not a roffler.
To me, this is not so much about hand values (you had 55% equity as it happens) as SNG tactical awareness, spatial awareness if you like, especially as to......
a) the other players relative abilities.
b) Their stack sizes
2 of the other players were clearly "inexperienced", & one of them was Mr Shortie. So personally, I'm attacking them, not the other big stacks or experienced players. I prefer to fight easy battles.
Also, based on "GAP", once the raise has come in, our hand is not, imo, strong enough to go to war. (As it happens, it was, but you did not know that).
More importantly, it does not NEED to go to war. This is key.
Personally, & in your spot, once the raiser had opened, I'm stepping aside.
Why go to war when there are easier ways to win this?
On balance, I don't think either player did much wrong. Pretty sure the best man won it, too.
And let's not forget it isn't only about the dym we are playing. In the aggro view of the world we are happy to make -ve ev plays if by doing so we think we will get more respect for our raises in other dyms to come. I'm sure some of the folds i get is because peeps are worried I'll take them on even if behind.
And let's not forget it isn't only about the dym we are playing. In the aggro view of the world we are happy to make -ve ev plays if by doing so we think we will get more respect for our raises in other dyms to come. I'm sure some of the folds i get is because peeps are worried I'll take them on even if behind. Posted by GELDY
This is a fair point, I think of bhoys as being an aggro opponent having played him on a number of occasions, pretty sure that has an impact on the way I approach raising and facing raises from him.
Rather like macacgirl when she is holding 8833.....:-)
And let's not forget it isn't only about the dym we are playing. In the aggro view of the world we are happy to make -ve ev plays if by doing so we think we will get more respect for our raises in other dyms to come. I'm sure some of the folds i get is because peeps are worried I'll take them on even if behind. Posted by GELDY
This is a fair point, I think of bhoys as being an aggro opponent having played him on a number of occasions, pretty sure that has an impact on the way I approach raising and facing raises from him.
Rather like macacgirl when she is holding 8833.....:-)
And let's not forget it isn't only about the dym we are playing. In the aggro view of the world we are happy to make -ve ev plays if by doing so we think we will get more respect for our raises in other dyms to come. I'm sure some of the folds i get is because peeps are worried I'll take them on even if behind. Posted by GELDY
That's a great point Gelders.
Those of us who cross swords with you regularly know that when you raise, you won't be backing down, & this does, or should, affect how we play against you.
That assumes, of course, you are playing in GeldMode # 13 at the time.
I have observed that in GeldMode #'s 4 & 7, you do fold to aggression.
I think you should add a note to your Field Address so we know which GeldMode you are currently playing. It's must unfair that you mix it up.
Yes, Yes, Yes and Yes! Due to my lunatic tendencies, I've just completed another challenge. To prove my colour coding (red player = nutjob calling station) I've been raising into them all day, with or without a hand, to see how many straight calls/re-raises I could get. After an initial failed start of only 5 calls before I got a fold, I then continued and battered my previous record. I hit 40 today! Job done. Now all I need to do is try to play properly and win back the £97,000 I've lost.
Comments
Is this hand just ul or do I need the nuts to be calling??
Unless you have good notes on BB, that he will fold a lot - then raise to steal.
Sometimes you just have to give the BB a walk.
At least you still had 12 BB's left which is plenty.
Or just let them get on with it against the shorty?
as i said this is still in its experimental stage so please don't take anything as gospel or even as sensible.
standard dym play would have you chillaxing and letting the others fight it out.
but this can go on a long time (re Tikay's comment of blinds sometimes at 400/800 even with 5 peeps left)
so for now i am maintaining the aggressive concept, but with adjustments.
ie seeing more flops cheaply if i can, attacking shorties when i have good hands etc.
Aggression uber alles, and all the time.
Food for thought
I'm not so hot with aggression, at least not until we go 4 handed then it's chocks away, but your all round aggression is a potent weapon, & is why you are - I hope & assume - doing so much better.
LIKE
ActionCardsAmountPotBalance67Bhoys Small blind 100.00 100.00 2880.00 MITCH38 Big blind 200.00 300.00 960.00 Your hole cards K 2 2 A RandomRaise 700.00 1000.00 1520.00 pj_from_uk Fold eon1961 Fold 67Bhoys Raise 2200.00 3200.00 680.00 MITCH38 Fold RandomAll-in 1520.00 4720.00 0.00 67Bhoys Unmatched bet 80.00 4640.00 760.00 67Bhoys Show K 2 2 A RandomShow 2 A Q 4 Flop J J 8 Turn 10 River 8 67Bhoys Win high Two Pairs, Jacks and 2s 4640.00 5400.00 No qualifying low hand PrevClose windowNext
Not to mention, us re-shipping might lead BB to fold a hand he would otherwise go with (where we could potentially be down to 4 players left)
1. What would you do in villains place?
2. What would you do in the same position but with each others cards?
On the counterfeit of my low cards, an Ace would give me top pair and a 2 would give me bottom set, not ideal, but if I'm putting Random on an Ace, then there are only 2 Aces and 2 deuces left in the deck.
I know this was a marginal spot, but with a limited amount of time available to make a decision, it is difficult to run through every +EV or -EV. I decided to re-raise because I was out of position, and also decided, if necessary, to play for stacks, mainly because I had Random covered and I thought my hand had good high and low possibilities
Also in my mind, when the blinds reach 100/200, you are going to have to flip sooner rather than later, and this was as good a hand as any to go to war with.
HH
2) If I had Randoms cards in my positon, I don't like my high draw, so prob fold.
In answer to the question, no, "random" cannot, ever, fold here, having already potted it. We also know his likely range is "solid" at worst, he's not a roffler.
To me, this is not so much about hand values (you had 55% equity as it happens) as SNG tactical awareness, spatial awareness if you like, especially as to......
a) the other players relative abilities.
b) Their stack sizes
2 of the other players were clearly "inexperienced", & one of them was Mr Shortie. So personally, I'm attacking them, not the other big stacks or experienced players. I prefer to fight easy battles.
Also, based on "GAP", once the raise has come in, our hand is not, imo, strong enough to go to war. (As it happens, it was, but you did not know that).
More importantly, it does not NEED to go to war. This is key.
Personally, & in your spot, once the raiser had opened, I'm stepping aside.
Why go to war when there are easier ways to win this?
On balance, I don't think either player did much wrong. Pretty sure the best man won it, too.
Those of us who cross swords with you regularly know that when you raise, you won't be backing down, & this does, or should, affect how we play against you.
That assumes, of course, you are playing in GeldMode # 13 at the time.
I have observed that in GeldMode #'s 4 & 7, you do fold to aggression.
I think you should add a note to your Field Address so we know which GeldMode you are currently playing. It's must unfair that you mix it up.
Due to my lunatic tendencies, I've just completed another challenge. To prove my colour coding (red player = nutjob calling station) I've been raising into them all day, with or without a hand, to see how many straight calls/re-raises I could get. After an initial failed start of only 5 calls before I got a fold, I then continued and battered my previous record. I hit 40 today!
Job done.
Now all I need to do is try to play properly and win back the £97,000 I've lost.