PLO8 DYM's - Tips, Advice, & Help Thread

weecheez1

In Response to Re: foolproof:

In Response to foolproof : One more tip for you Mr Wee, after we shared tables tonight - play fewer hands. A LOT less. Be very selective with starting hands, try to get "balanced" hands (high & low), hands such as A-K-2-3, A-Q-2-3, those sort of hands. Low only hands will cost you money.   Preserve your chips until it gets to 100-200 or 150-300, then when you find a nice balanced hand, pot it - DO NOT LIMP. Limping lets other players freeroll you. By raising, you get better hands to pass, & often take it down without a call. Where possible, be a raiser not a caller.
Posted by Tikay10

Thanks tikay I was trying out all the dym tables today to see what if any difference there was and by far the most aggro was the one I shared with you I felt I was pretty quiet I made a major mistake thinking I had a house when I had only used one card that was the second time in two games but I think it will come good in the end all the information you guys give is invaluable and it's definitely a concentration thing with me I blame the meds ha ha

Tikay10

In Response to Re: foolproof:

In Response to Re: foolproof : Thanks tikay I was trying out all the dym tables today to see what if any difference there was and by far the most aggro was the one I shared with you I felt I was pretty quiet I made a major mistake thinking I had a house when I had only used one card that was the second time in two games but I think it will come good in the end all the information you guys give is invaluable and it's definitely a concentration thing with me I blame the meds ha ha
Posted by weecheez1

Remember what I said yesterday - use that "Hand Description" thing - it really is useful until you get an instinctive feel for your holding.

Tikay10

In Response to Re: PLO8 DYM's - Tips, Advice, & Help Thread:

  I think what has top be my favourite aspect of this lovely variant is the fact that the 2 most problematic hands are also the 2 you most want to see. And that is AAxx(especially bad aces) and A2xx.   Unlike in holdem when you know you are 80-90% favourite preflop, here you are never much than 65%. And these 2 hands in particular tend to end 1 of three ways. Losing a big pot, winning a small pot or chopping.  So my advice. With bad aces and A2xx(no decent Hi option) first couple of levels just fold and save your chips. Later on bad aces can grow in value but definitely not at 10/20 or 15/30.  Maybe this is a bit too tight for some but as far as i can see chips not over the line cant be lost
Posted by Talon

Amen to all that.

Tikay10

In Response to Re: PLO8 DYM's - Tips, Advice, & Help Thread:

In Response to Re: PLO8 DYM's - Tips, Advice, & Help Thread : Ha, if only. I think to myself if I could make that every night, it would amount to x per year, & I could play full time, give up work, da de da. I made £30 on Monday, too, proper upswing is - or was - in progress. But then, you know how it is, it smacks us in the face the next night & we do all of it back. And so it goes on, 3 steps forward, 2 steps back.   Guess it's why we love the game so much.   
Posted by Tikay10

And bang on cue, I got beaten up good & proper last night, winning just 11 from 30, (my worst ever night, perhaps) & dropping a whopping £37. Lost the first 8 in a row, & 9 of the first 10. Yikes.

Partly my own fault, I had concentration issues with stuff going off on the Forum, mixed with some poor quality decisions & badly timed moves.

Can't take liberties with this game, especially when our perceived edge is so very small.

67Bhoys

In Response to Re: foolproof:

In Response to Re: foolproof : Thanks tikay I was trying out all the dym tables today to see what if any difference there was and by far the most aggro was the one I shared with you I felt I was pretty quiet I made a major mistake thinking I had a house when I had only used one card that was the second time in two games but I think it will come good in the end all the information you guys give is invaluable and it's definitely a concentration thing with me I blame the meds ha ha
Posted by weecheez1

Hi mate, if you were on a table with Tikay, that means you were on a £3.30 or above table.  The majority of players playing at that level are very proficient at the game.  I would suggest learning the game a bit more on the microstakes tables might be better in the short term, until you are totally comfortable with the game.

67Bhoys

In Response to Re: PLO8 DYM's - Tips, Advice, & Help Thread:

In Response to Re: PLO8 DYM's - Tips, Advice, & Help Thread : And bang on cue, I got beaten up good & proper last night, winning just 11 from 30, (my worst ever night, perhaps) & dropping a whopping £37. Lost the first 8 in a row, & 9 of the first 10. Yikes. Partly my own fault, I had concentration issues with stuff going off on the Forum, mixed with some poor quality decisions & badly timed moves. Can't take liberties with this game, especially when our perceived edge is so very small.
Posted by Tikay10

An obvious case of collusion if ever I saw one.

weecheez1

In Response to Re: foolproof:

In Response to Re: foolproof : Hi mate, if you were on a table with Tikay, that means you were on a £3.30 or above table.  The majority of players playing at that level are very proficient at the game.  I would suggest learning the game a bit more on the microstakes tables might be better in the short term, until you are totally comfortable with the game.
Posted by 67Bhoys

Thanks mate but I was playing with 4 quid I got off the freeroll there were no other games available it can be quite difficult to get a game sometimes I was under no illusions but it's nice to see how the other half live now and then

HENDRIK62

In Response to Re: PLO8 DYM's - Tips, Advice, & Help Thread:

gents i am a winning player on PLO but that game seems to have gone dead on sky at the moment unfortunately. i have tried PLO8 but really seem to be struggling to pick up tactics. any tips? have been forced back to the 2 handed game but although making profit not my favourite game. btw this is at micro levels
Posted by SAV4BP

Hi SAV

There are lots of good posts on this thread and some HH posted in the sit and go thread.

You will see some differing viewpoints and of course dependant on format (tournaments, DYM's) differing approaches, one theme which changes very little is 'starting hands'.

At the start of this thread TK and others have listed good starting hands which of course can be modified somewhat as your style evolves, but having a solid starting range is essential.

Neil

Tikay10

A quick tip here, it really applies to any DYM, but this was in a PLO8 affair last night.

I'm not saying I am correct, this is just my view, but I saw a play last night which struck me as terrible.
 
4 of us left, 2 have around 3,500, the other 2 - including Villain & myself - have about 2,500 each. This is the part of a DYM that really matters, & where we need to avoid mistakes. 

The 2 big stacks are in the Blinds, now Villain, playing 2,500 (same as me) LIMPS. Limps at 200-400, what? That can NEVER be good.
 
He can be trapping here with the Aces, but even they are not huge jollies, so I don't think that is good play.
 
Anyway, he limps, & I have.....

A-2-4-J, with a nut suit in hearts.

So I pot it, & I'm pot stuck now, whatever he does. He now FLATS. 

It comes a nice flop, 2 of my nut suit & 2 low. He checks. I put the rest in, & he calls in a heartbeat.
 
He has A-K-2-3. 

I hit my flush, & no more low cards come, so I (luckily) bust him.
 
I think his play here is absolutely terrible.
 
He should pot it pre flop & post flop, every time. 

As I'm a little on the tight side, & prefer to open with worse if need be, rather than face a confrontation, if he pots it pre, before it gets to me, I snap fold.
 
So he lost a DYM he really should not have.     

weecheez1

In Response to Re: PLO8 DYM's - Tips, Advice, & Help Thread:

A quick tip here, it really applies to any DYM, but this was in a PLO8 affair last night. I'm not saying I am correct, this is just my view, but I saw a play last night which struck me as terrible.   4 of us left, 2 have around 3,500, the other 2 - including Villain & myself - have about 2,500 each. This is the part of a DYM that really matters, & where we need to avoid mistakes.  The 2 big stacks are in the Blinds, now Villain, playing 2,500 (same as me) LIMPS. Limps at 200-400, what? That can NEVER be good.   He can be trapping here with the Aces, but even they are not huge jollies, so I don't think that is good play.   Anyway, he limps, & I have..... A-2-4-J, with a nut suit in hearts. So I pot it, & I'm pot stuck now, whatever he does. He now FLATS.  It comes a nice flop, 2 of my nut suit & 2 low. He checks. I put the rest in, & he calls in a heartbeat.   He has A-K-2-3.  I hit my flush, & no more low cards come, so I (luckily) bust him.   I think his play here is absolutely terrible.   He should pot it pre flop & post flop, every time.  As I'm a little on the tight side, & prefer to open with worse if need be, rather than face a confrontation, if he pots it pre, before it gets to me, I snap fold.   So he lost a DYM he really should not have.      
Posted by Tikay10

I don't know how to word this tikay if he had raised against any other at the table would they have snap folded they both seem like playable hands and he might of thought he had a chance to bust you both off you being short and did not want to scare you off 

stuarty117

In Response to Re: PLO8 DYM's - Tips, Advice, & Help Thread:

In Response to Re: PLO8 DYM's - Tips, Advice, & Help Thread : I don't know how to word this tikay if he had raised against any other at the table would they have snap folded they both seem like playable hands and he might of thought he had a chance to bust you both off you being short and did not want to scare you off 
Posted by weecheez1

Hi Mr cheez

If you have 2500 chips and limp 400 you are limping 1/6 of your stack plus the blinds will be coming round soon.

At this stage of a dym you are looking to collect the 600 chips or go one on one to cash if we have a decent hand.

If the guy had of raised tikay may have folded and waited for a better spot. He collects 600 chips and moves onto next hand.

The worst thing especially in Holdem in late stages of a dym is to limp with AA or KK and then the Big blind flops 2 pair and we lose always raise makes the game so much easier.

weecheez1

In Response to Re: PLO8 DYM's - Tips, Advice, & Help Thread:

In Response to Re: PLO8 DYM's - Tips, Advice, & Help Thread : Hi Mr cheez If you have 2500 chips and limp 400 you are limping 1/6 of your stack plus the blinds will be coming round soon. At this stage of a dym you are looking to collect the 600 chips or go one on one to cash if we have a decent hand. If the guy had of raised tikay may have folded and waited for a better spot. He collects 600 chips and moves onto next hand. The worst thing especially in Holdem in late stages of a dym is to limp with AA or KK and then the Big blind flops 2 pair and we lose always raise makes the game so much easier.
Posted by stuarty117

Thanks stuarty these things will come to me eventually I think it's more like a chess game playing dyms enjoying them a lot

VespaPX

In Response to Re: PLO8 DYM's - Tips, Advice, & Help Thread:

A quick tip here, it really applies to any DYM, but this was in a PLO8 affair last night. I'm not saying I am correct, this is just my view, but I saw a play last night which struck me as terrible.   4 of us left, 2 have around 3,500, the other 2 - including Villain & myself - have about 2,500 each. This is the part of a DYM that really matters, & where we need to avoid mistakes.  The 2 big stacks are in the Blinds, now Villain, playing 2,500 (same as me) LIMPS. Limps at 200-400, what? That can NEVER be good.   He can be trapping here with the Aces, but even they are not huge jollies, so I don't think that is good play.   Anyway, he limps, & I have..... A-2-4-J, with a nut suit in hearts. So I pot it, & I'm pot stuck now, whatever he does. He now FLATS.  It comes a nice flop, 2 of my nut suit & 2 low. He checks. I put the rest in, & he calls in a heartbeat.   He has A-K-2-3.  I hit my flush, & no more low cards come, so I (luckily) bust him.   I think his play here is absolutely terrible.   He should pot it pre flop & post flop, every time.  As I'm a little on the tight side, & prefer to open with worse if need be, rather than face a confrontation, if he pots it pre, before it gets to me, I snap fold.   So he lost a DYM he really should not have.      
Posted by Tikay10

Its a trend a few players have.

Got notes on these

Limp/Folds

Limp/Calls

Been really helpful on who to raise

Tikay10

In Response to Re: PLO8 DYM's - Tips, Advice, & Help Thread:

In Response to Re: PLO8 DYM's - Tips, Advice, & Help Thread : Hi Mr cheez If you have 2500 chips and limp 400 you are limping 1/6 of your stack plus the blinds will be coming round soon. At this stage of a dym you are looking to collect the 600 chips or go one on one to cash if we have a decent hand. If the guy had of raised tikay may have folded and waited for a better spot. He collects 600 chips and moves onto next hand. The worst thing especially in Holdem in late stages of a dym is to limp with AA or KK and then the Big blind flops 2 pair and we lose always raise makes the game so much easier.
Posted by stuarty117

Good post Stu, & this is part of what I was trying to get across to Cheezy.
 
The limper with A-K-2-x had 2,500 chips @ 200-400 before the hand.

He limps UTG, I fold the Button, the SB makes up & the BB checks.

Flop comes 9-3-3.

SB pots it.
 
What does Mr Limpy Limp do now? He HAS to fold.
 
So he has set fire to 400 of his 2,500, & now has to go through the blinds (another 600) where he will be OOP, & susceptible to a bet in front of him. So he is now down to 1,500, & in shove mode - so he MUST find a hand before the next set of blinds now.
 
Suddenly, he's in big trouble. And for sure, he'll be thinking (if he has any sense) "if ONLY I had potted it when I had that A-K-2-x hand".

Not only does he lkely win that hand uncontested (nobody LIKES calling & they need a serious hand to do so) but more importantly, he has PAID THE RENT for another orbit. And that's gives him another orbit to a) find a hand & b) let the players potentially bust. At 200-400, every orbit is a bonus, as eventually, someone is gonna bust.

2,500 @ 200-400 4 handed in an unopened pot, A-K-2-x is ALWAYS a bet. Always. This hand is almost the PLO8 equivalent of Aces in NLH.
 
If we were deep in a NLH MTT or SNG, would we ever limp with AK? Course not. 

There is a fundamental of poker at work here. 

Give ourselves TWO ways to win this hand. They all fold, or they call & we win.
 
By CALLING, we only give ourselves one way to win the hand. This is a fundamental of poker.    

 

weecheez1

In Response to Re: PLO8 DYM's - Tips, Advice, & Help Thread:

In Response to Re: PLO8 DYM's - Tips, Advice, & Help Thread : Good post Stu, & this is part of what I was trying to get across to Cheezy.   The limper with A-K-2-x had 2,500 chips @ 200-400 before the hand. He limps UTG, I fold the Button, the SB makes up & the BB checks. Flop comes 9-3-3. SB pots it.   What does Mr Limpy Limp do now? He HAS to fold.   So he has set fire to 400 of his 2,500, & now has to go through the blinds (another 600) where he will be OOP, & susceptible to a bet in front of him. So he is now down to 1,500, & in shove mode - so he MUST find a hand before the next set of blinds now.   Suddenly, he's in big trouble. And for sure, he'll be thinking (if he has any sense) "if ONLY I had potted it when I had that A-K-2-x hand". Not only does he lkely win that hand uncontested (nobody LIKES calling & they need a serious hand to do so) but more importantly, he has PAID THE RENT for another orbit. And that's gives him another orbit to a) find a hand & b) let the players potentially bust. At 200-400, every orbit is a bonus, as eventually, someone is gonna bust. 2,500 @ 200-400 4 handed in an unopened pot, A-K-2-x is ALWAYS a bet. Always. This hand is almost the PLO8 equivalent of Aces in NLH.   If we were deep in a NLH MTT or SNG, would we ever limp with AK? Course not.  There is a fundamental of poker at work here.  Give ourselves TWO ways to win this hand. They all fold, or they call & we win.   By CALLING, we only give ourselves one way to win the hand. This is a fundamental of poker.      
Posted by Tikay10

Point taken sir be aggressive or get off the potty 

weecheez1

Hi boys I am looking for yet more advice I want to set myself some targets in the new year I tend to jump on whatever table is available when playing I would like to be a bit more structured any ideas I play most of the games bh deepstacks and PLO8 when they are on 

67Bhoys

In Response to Re: PLO8 DYM's - Tips, Advice, & Help Thread:

Hi boys I am looking for yet more advice I want to set myself some targets in the new year I tend to jump on whatever table is available when playing I would like to be a bit more structured any ideas I play most of the games bh deepstacks and PLO8 when they are on 
Posted by weecheez1

Hi mate, it depends what targets you want to achieve.

Are you playing for fun and willing to gamble and lose a certain amount each month?

Do you want to build a bankroll to enable you to hopefully move up the stakes?

Do you want to play small stakes and hopefully be proficient enough to make a small profit?

weecheez1

In Response to Re: PLO8 DYM's - Tips, Advice, & Help Thread:

In Response to Re: PLO8 DYM's - Tips, Advice, & Help Thread : Hi mate, it depends what targets you want to achieve. Are you playing for fun and willing to gamble and lose a certain amount each month? Do you want to build a bankroll to enable you to hopefully move up the stakes? Do you want to play small stakes and hopefully be proficient enough to make a small profit?
Posted by 67Bhoys

I would like it firstly to remain fun a profit would be fine but not at the expense of turning into a chore where all that's important is money I was thinking along the lines of the challenges that appear on the forum maybe ten of each tournament ie 2 20 bounty hunter ,ten deepstacks at 2 20 and ten PLO8 sit and goes the problem with the last one is most of the games are 3 00 and above  

67Bhoys

In Response to Re: PLO8 DYM's - Tips, Advice, & Help Thread:

In Response to Re: PLO8 DYM's - Tips, Advice, & Help Thread : I would like it firstly to remain fun a profit would be fine but not at the expense of turning into a chore where all that's important is money I was thinking along the lines of the challenges that appear on the forum maybe ten of each tournament ie 2 20 bounty hunter ,ten deepstacks at 2 20 and ten PLO8 sit and goes the problem with the last one is most of the games are 3 00 and above  
Posted by weecheez1

As long as it's within your budget, and you can afford to have fun, then your fine with what you are suggesting.  I saw a post by Lambet180 on another thread, where he states that only 10% of online players regularly make a profit, I could easily believe this might be the case.

Maybe keeping a diary on the pokerchat page might be an idea.  Set out some reasonable targets you want to achieve, nothing too impossible.  You will find that people will encourage you along, and also it will  enable you to post your thoughts and get some feedback.

I would advise keeping records of all your games seperately, NH, BH, PLO8 Tournaments, PLO8 DYMs, etc.  This will give you a good indication of where your strengths and weaknesses lie, enabling you to focus your game on your strong points and hopefully make a profit, and also indicating what areas of your game that you have to work on and improve.

On the PLO8 DYMs, I play microstakes and would suggest being patient.  Start a SNG, it will fill eventually.  I would also suggest you use my tennis strategy outlined a few pages back for each level you play.  If you can regularly win tennis matches at the level you are playing on, then you can maybe step up and give the next level a shot. 

Anyway best of luck with it mate.

Craig

67Bhoys

A quick update for all the tennis fans out there. 

Results of my tennis matches in Dec.

Played  60    won  41    Lost  19

Bankroll nitiness in Dec.

Bets   £525.65

Profit  £  62.87

ROI       12%

HENDRIK62

thought on this hand please?PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalancemisterbunSmall blind 15.0015.002120.00HENDRIK62Big blind 30.0045.001360.00 Your hole cardsJAA2   Macacgirl1Fold    NOMADICUSCall 30.0075.002740.00 Call 30.00105.001905.00tikay1Fold    misterbunCall 15.00120.002105.00HENDRIK62Raise 120.00240.001240.00NOMADICUSCall 120.00360.002620.00 Call 120.00480.001785.00misterbunFold    Flop  JK4   HENDRIK62Bet 360.00840.00880.00NOMADICUSFold     Call 360.001200.001425.00Turn  7   HENDRIK62All-in 880.002080.000.00 All-in 1425.003505.000.00 Unmatched bet 545.002960.00545.00HENDRIK62ShowJAA2    ShowAQ34   River  4    Win highFlush to the King2960.00 3505.00 No qualifying low hand    Clos

HENDRIK62

Regarding the above ^^

My opponent here is a very experienced DYM player, has a strong range and a good grasp of this particular format

It may be the hand would have played out the same regardless, but my question is this;

Given I have raised pre here he can put me on a balanced hi lo hand and likely aces.

He obvioulsy flops a flush draw (albeit I hold the nut blocker)

If I raise smaller on the flop (say 250), when he misses on the turn, his odds are slashed, and his low draw is very weak. If I then pot bet can he really carry on with a single pair and non nutted draw.

With some players I wouldn't even question it as they will go with the thinnest possible, but with this player I think if I play it differently I may have some fold equity?

Phantom66

I think you have both gone to war too thin too early for a dym.

It is still L2 with 6 players left in.

You get your chips in with an overpair and a low draw.

They get their chips with a non-nut flush draw and non-nut low draw.

I dont think I would pot bet the flop maybe 2/3 to 3/4 we could have flopped bad v 2 opponents but may still get folds from drawing only hands. 

HENDRIK62

Hi Mark,

Thanks for looking, I agree with your summary, I know a big leak for me when running poorly (this was in the middle of an extended downswing) is getting too attached to pretty hands and getting involved too much in early levels.

As I say I was just wondering aloud if, by playing this differently I don't commit myself or the opponent on the flop (I have pretty much done that above with my bet sizing), then perhaps on the turn I can bomb it and get a fold.

Macacgirl1

I'd have played it like this.

AA2x at any level I'm potting it.

You got a call, not a reraise pre-flop, that usually means you're looking at A2/3/4/5/6/7 type combo hands.

That's usually of course, some people call with any 4.

The flop comes two high cards, you're ahead usually, instant pot it.

Without flush draw or a set he's folding

He calls, he's telling you he has a draw or set.

Turn comes low, he hasn't hit his flush, no straight, pot it, try to get him off a draw. You'll probably find out here if he has a set. With a set, he should get emin anyway, UL. Timing eh?

He gets em' in, you're behind or he's on a draw.

He then hits his flush on the river. Nevermind. Give up. Take up knitting.

If not all-in pre river....Against some players I'll rep the nut flush, or a FH after the river, against others I'll give up. Usually pot commited here anyways.

Obv all the above, a bit different due to stack sizes etc, chips all-in on the turn, but you get the drift. Personally I think you did the right thing. He got em in with non nut draws. Happy Days.

Against some people I'd play it very differently, but against the majority, like that.

And the award for the longest unintentional blank space, goes to....

Tikay10

Mods - ban this woman please.

Waste of space.

HENDRIK62

In Response to Re: PLO8 DYM's - Tips, Advice, & Help Thread:

Mods - ban this woman please. Waste of space.
Posted by Tikay10

lol very good

Phantom66

Hand History #995595301 (22:40 25/01/2016)

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
xxxx	Small blind		100.00	100.00	1632.50
omahahilo	Big blind		200.00	300.00	2970.00
	Your hole cards	3 J A Q
Macacgirl1	Fold
isa66	Fold
Phantom66	Raise		700.00	1000.00	1420.00
xxxx	Call		600.00	1600.00	1032.50
omahahilo	Fold
Flop
		8 7 7
xxxx	Bet		200.00	1800.00	832.50
Phantom66	Call		200.00	2000.00	1220.00
Turn
		Q
xxxx	All-in		832.50	2832.50	0.00
Phantom66	Fold
xxxx	Muck
xxxx	Win		2000.00		2000.00
xxxx	Return		832.50	0.00	2832.50

Phantom66

Any thoughts on the above hand please?

I have already attempted twice to post my own thoughts at the time and since but lost them when I was frozen out by a sky poker pop-up. General problem with Firefox or just me?

Interested in thoughts. Brief summary of mine...

1. Pre - Maybe just 400 instead of committing 700? Does the job of folding out rubbish, happy to fold it to a repot and not a bad hand to play in position post flop.

2. Flop - Hate the board - opponent could be on a low only trying to steal pot as they are more likely to have the 7. Is a call OK or would anyone fold or re-pot?

3. Turn - Hate the Qd as flushes have now hit too, and the all-in even more. Could definitely be a bluff as I have shown post flop weakness but is that enough to make the call when only a Q or a 2 are needed to help me.

weecheez1

Great read