In for a penny

Phantom66

So I think I'll carry on with these for now (20nl only)

75p a game is better than most of my SNG efforts and the £1 6max don't run that often

Let's Spin while I'm winning!

Phantom66

Yesterday was an eventful day.

Sitting at the laptop - working not playing - when I heard a loud "pop" followed by the swooshing of running water.

Ran into the kitchen to see water pouring out of the sink unit. 

Luckily I knew where the stop-cock was and it wasnt seized up so the flow was stemmed in under a minute.

The pipe connecting the tap to the plumbing had literally burst.

We have emergency cover on our house insurance and so called them out - but they didnt really hep me much - all they are allowed to do under their contract is islolate the leak not actually fix the problem. By the time they arrived I had mopped up and isolated that pipe myself. Funny how often the headline insurance makes you think you are covered things but when something goes wrong it isnt covered. Very good risk managers insurers, they know how to not pay up for the most common risks. 

So now we have water everywhere else in the house but no hot water tap in the kitchen and I have a job to do today in finding and fixing a suitable replacement. Googling for taps is a fascinating proposal, there are alot more than I thought and they are alot dearer than I thought!

We have a tiled floor on a concrete base so hopefully not too much damage done after a quick mop up. The sink unit itself might be damaged if water got into it but I guess that will take a while to manifest itself. At least the insurers know about the leak if I have to claim later.

On the poker front received the bonus and a couple of small sessions saw a small but welcome win on the day to see the progress curve heading back in the right direction.

Dont think I'll get much in today except maybe the FR and a later evening session once thanks to my plumbing duties.

GL all and may all your leaks be little ones that are easily fixed!

unknown_username

In Response to Re: New Rewards - New Challenge:

. Googling for taps is a fascinating proposal, there are alot more than I thought and they are alot dearer than I thought!

Lidls are selling taps this week

Phantom66

cheers mumsie.

checked them out but going for this option instead

http://www.wickes.co.uk/Wickes-Trade-Mono-Mixer-Kitchen-Sink-Tap-Chrome/p/410156

(other taps are available always do your own research)

we need a monoblock but the last one twisted from the base and always worked loose and that extra movement may have contributed to the burst.

This new one has a fixed base and the spout twists independently.

Phantom66

Well.

My DIY skills are worse than my poker skills for sure. However, I had been assured by the pro plumber  who visited on monday that it was a relatively easy job even for a casual rec like me. In hindsight that's probably like Matt Bates telling a total noob that winning £55BHs is pretty straight forward.

I even watched a couple of You Tube videos, boy do those pros make it look easy.

I would agree that fitting a new tap is relatively straight forward, that bit only took about 30 mins whereas the real issue was removing the old taps - the ones seemingly welded instead of screwed into position and the fittings that needed to be unscrewed located in the hardest to get to places behind various pipes and in the corner of the unit.

You also need a box spanner to undo the nut at the base of the sink - involving another trip to the DIY store and a few more quid.

The taps definitely won this battle and Tilited me big time. I can't remember the last time I swore so much. I ache all over as well.

So just as I thought I was winning, the taps did me on the river, one of the tail pipes that connect to the plumbing was too short - muggins had just assumed they would be a standard size. So now we have a nice new looking tap but on the water front we are back to square one with only the cold one working.

Phantom66

So following the title rebranding, what about these spinups then?

I'll leave the good or bad for poker/site debate for the other threads.

For here I will assume that they are here to stay for a while at least.

Why play them?

They are definitely fun - with 10BB you get plenty of action. Not the usual nit infested low-mid level cash for sure.

Can you beat them?

According to some - no, not long term. Noboday has played them long term yet. I am advised that 100,000 hands is a good metric to judge cash winnability. I have not found an easy way to measure my casha hands. I am recording every session in terms of Profit/Loss though. Overall results from a few tables are up there ^^^^. 

According to others (e.g. Ivanovic for one) and me and Alex229. Yes.

Why?

The player pool is poor - it must be - its the only explanation for me turning into a winning cash player. Hopefully partly as well because they suit my game and I am thinking about the format and adjusting accordingly.

Some people buy in for less than 10BB.

Some people dont autotopup and get blinded down. I saw one player get blinded down to 2BB then shoved KK and got a double up to 4BB. Shortly after bust in a hand. 

Some of the ranges are crazy - there are a few A2C punters (or maniacs) and there are a few who are way too nitty. I like to think I have a good range for 10BB play having played most of my poker at SNGs.

The claimants that its unbeatable also probably dont appreciate how quickly the game can elvate to 30-40BB and given that some of those players are making very exploitable mistakes post-flop (they would have to be for me to take advantage) then that really helps.

So if a new table starts up with 6x10BB players it will play a bit like a turbo sng mid stages, however consider that if the weaker players do get lucky you can reload.

My general advice for these would be...

1. Watch the Bankroll Management - I have a personal 5BI stop loss for a session. I would recommend having at least 50BI for the level you start at but that should probably 100+ as long as you can afford to lose that.

2. Always buyin for the full amount and use autotopup - but count your reloads and have a stop loss in place.

3. Take notes on players shove/call ranges it's essential. Then also take notes as normal about players post flop play.

4. Think about and study shove/call ranges but adjust according to your notes on the table.

5. Try and build a stack as quickly as you can. You have a huge advantage over the table if you are 50BB plus and there are plenty of players on 10BB. So maybe take a few more risks while on 10BB (you need a wider range there anyway).

6. I dont think table selection is that important yet. Maybe at higher levels, but at 20nl there are only 1 or 2 tables in play and usually a number of exploitable players. However try not to sit at a table where you are the only short stack or there would be a monster stack to your immediate left.

I am nearing 100 sessions at 20nl so I'll post an update and progress graph when I get there.

GL at the tables

Phantom66

Spinup Chat etiquette

It seems I have a bit to learn an the accepted chat etquette at nl cash tables.

apparently "ul" isnt a phrase used very much.

"boom" and "lololololol" or "hahahahaha" are the accepted ways of greeting your 1/2/3 outer on the river.

I am also getting some great coaching at the spinup tables...

"you're mad"

"how can u play 55?"

"stupid play"

and a few others that I could post, if only I could remember their tricks for getting around the filters

Phantom66

100th session completed at 20nl spinups

It was a losing one but overall have to be pleased.

spinup	P/L	sessions	wins	%	avg w/l	bi/sess
20nl	£130.85	100	64	64.0%	£1.31	0.65

Progress chart looks like a fairly steady progression to me so happy with that. Must be running well though as the game is unbeatable after all.

Phantom66

Sorted the tap after a tour of local DIY and plumbing stores.

If you are in the Preston area and need any supplies I can recommend Independent Heating & Plumbing Supplies Ltd. Saved me the expense of calling out a plumber and that after 2 other plumbing suppliers saying they couldn't do it.

Hit £2 in the Rewards FR. I think I saw Ger at my table but I blinked and he disappeared. Couldn't chat as was on the phone. Was going well but 10BB seems to creep up on you soon after the hour, I ended up losing a standard flip AJ lost to 55 to be left with 1.01 BB a quick spinup and then 66 lost to AJ gg gn.

saw the dreaded boom word again - chipped up player called 4 way all-in with 46s and made the str8 - not much you can do about that except sigh.

Phantom66

Now I don't want to give a false impression that spinups are easy to beat. I also want to demonstrate that I am not running golden all the time.

There are some brutal sessions and you have to just accept them and get on with it. It's why I have a 5BI limit per session as taking too many bad beats can lead to a bit of tilt and bad play. The first 2/3 I can just laugh off and take it as part of the territory but 4/5 can start to be frustrating and the temptation can be to go after your chips back with weaker ranges.

The last session I played today I lost all of these match ups

A9 v T8s

55 v J3

AJ v KQ (also v T7s)

AK v AJ

A9 v J6

Please dont request a move to BBV as this isn't the point of the post to complain and I do know that most of those are only 60/40ish with the AKvAJ the only dominating hand.

In fact it's the exact opposite. It shows how easy it is to get your money in ahead in these games.

You just have to remember that while the maths is in your favour to win plenty longer term, you are bound to get runs where lyou lose them too. It may only be roughly 1% to lose all 5 of those, but in spinups you will be all-in pre a lot so seeing runs like this should not be a surprise.

Snuffer

Have been following your diary for a while now and I like your outlook on sessions win or lose, following with interest and good luck for you and Mrs P.

Phantom66

Thanks for the kind words Snuffer.

I find posting helps me put stuff into perspective.

Like Kipling wrote "If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster and treat those two bedfollows the same".

Not quoted as often comes this line - Makes me think he either was a gambler or knew some...

"If you can make one heap of all your winnings and risk it on one turn of pitch-andtoss, and lose, and start again at your beginnings And never breathe a word about your loss."

I wonder what he would make of Brags Beats and Variance?

Phantom66

Just had my 1st punt at UKPC qualification. x1 all-in-sat - came 1st - bust the semi in 25th though, sigh.

Chipped down early. Bottled a 3 barrel bluff which should have got through (K7643 or similar board - opponent had 99)

In hindsight bit early to be even trying the double barrel though 1st/2nd level of a fairly deep sat.

Maybe got carried away after my 2nd hand check/raise bluff on a flop after peeling from BB got through.

Had some interesting hands, some well played by me, others may be leaks where I could have got more value. As it was a "TV" table I might post something up for the next pitstop

Unfortunatley the 20pts wont help me much as I am in the no mans land between 100 and 500 where you get the £2.30 anyway.

Kicked myself a bit on the hand that did the damage. Down to about 8BB and UTG slightly shorter min raises UTG. Alarm bells ringing but folded round to my BB and I have AQ and shove. It was the AA that my gut was screaming out.

Snuffer

In Response to Re: New Rewards - New Challenge (now incorporating "Spin While I'm Winning" a view of life on the new cash spinup tables):

Thanks for the kind words Snuffer. I find posting helps me put stuff into perspective. Like Kipling wrote "If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster and treat those two bedfollows the same". Not quoted as often comes this line - Makes me think he either was a gambler or new some... "If you can make one heap of all your winnings and risk it on one turn of pitch-andtoss, and lose, and start again at your beginnings And never breathe a word about your loss." I wonder what he would make of Brags Beats and Variance?
Posted by Phantom66

I loved it when you were struggling with a small BRM you won you lost, meh,you was honest. Now you have more to work with your having fun not grinding, I'm trying to enjoy it and I think I am but a diary puts things into perspective and keeps you honest, good luck pal.

Phantom66

Oh dear.

Lady Variance conspired with Lord Indiscipline to bring me a big dent.

After midnight thought I'd start up a spinup and won a few chips off 1st player to take me on HU, new player arrives. I have notes - a bit loose - but dangerous loose. Not frightened to shove chips in a variety of situations. Soon it's me and new arrival HU.

Completely lost track of my x5BI rule. Very hard to exploit an aggro player from 10BB not exactly wait and trap territory, but I felt I was generally doing well at getting it in ahead Lady Variance was beating me up though. Don't get me wrong I held up sometimes and I won from behind too but there were 3 big hands when we both had stacks that went against me, the live card hitting trips on the flopx2 and the rivered flush...

The beats you cant control of course, the self control self imposed limit of 5BIs you need to - very annoyed with myself.

For the record it was over £17 or just under 9BIs before I finally conceded defeat. Ego is a bad companion on the poker tables. The "sensible voice" was telling me to stand when I had limited the damage back to £4, the "ego" wanted to carry on for 1 more double up to crush this fella (or lady).

I did gg them when I stood - like I say v hard to exploit and we both had "moves". I think I did reference their luck too, which wasn't meant to be sour grapes but may have sounded like them.

So full confession now made - hope it sinks in this time.

Phantom66

Good day on Sunday. Got to watch the footy and the golf and play some poker and won.

PNE won away and are now 7th in the Championship.

Like the 10/1 price boost as promoted by Dohhh seemed good value but not to be. As a part time Hammers fan that was the one I was most worried about - didn't expect spurs to be held by stoke.

So some overall numbers, 11 weeks in, 8 winning weeks, 3 losing...

			01/06/2015	08/06/2015	15/06/2015	22/06/2015	29/06/2015	06/07/2015	13/07/2015	20/07/2015	27/07/2015	03/08/2015	10/08/2015
	TOTAL	0	1	2	3	4	5	6	7	8	9	10	11
£ Start Bal	£50.00	£50.00	£50.00	£32.84	£36.38	£45.53	£59.07	£40.76	£87.41	£94.69	£145.53	£179.92	£124.72
£ End Bal	£167.21	£50.00	£32.84	£36.38	£45.53	£59.07	£40.76	£87.41	£94.69	£145.53	£179.92	£124.72	£167.21
£ P/L	£117.21		-£17.16	£3.54	£9.15	£13.54	-£18.31	£46.65	£7.28	£50.84	£34.39	-£55.20	£42.49

Phantom66

Breakdown of totals...

Pts Earned	3093
FR Qual	55
FR Played	31
Tokens Earned	£20.70
£ C4P Paid	£18.88
£ Won from Rew FR	£29.00
£ Won from Tokens	£16.85
	£64.73

Rewards and tokens	£64.73
SNG Total	-£18.30
MTT Total	-£29.10
Cash	£99.88
Phantom FFF	£117.21
Bets	-£3.00
Site B/R	£164.21

Phantom66

I made up the -£17 loss on the spinup, although it took me another 8 sessions to do that.

SNGs went very well, some good results on 6 max and PLO8 £5 dyms (P3 W3) in particular recovering those numbers after the £5 turbo crash.

Double points next weekend so I think I will try for 500 points next week.

Phantom66

Revised focus for this week is now getting 100pts tonight and a shot at the last chance UKPC FR.

Also seems Saints does have a grinder in our midst after all so may just pick up a free bet out of Premiership promo.

Chapeau LUIGL +£5k points.

Phantom66

Just wanted to share this had from last night's plopping action...

I have changed the names to make the protaganists completely impossible to identify.

Now we are on the dym bubble. I dont have a fantastic hand but this stage of a dym it's definitely a pot.

oldnit is a bit of a reg - MT's PLO8 from £3 to £10.

Generally doesnt play a hand level 1-4. Then after that pots or repots and usually has it. Recent notes though have observed occasional open limping and getting caught stealing.

When I pot from button I expecting to be HU with Mr aggro or take the blinds uncontested and I would be happy with either outcome. Mr aggro loves to pot - the ronnie o'sullivan of the PLO8 community. Puts you in tough spots with post flop pots. Usually has one or other end of it or a good draw when potting. So when the repot comes from oldnit I am expecting to be up against AA23s or similar.

AATTds still a very nice hand and well ahead of me and my range but did oldnit need to get involved or just sit back and let me and mr aggro go to war - or aggro lose his BB?

So I got lucky - also got lucky next hand and oldnit was out - vul.

Just wondering if any forum reg ploppers would care to comment on the hand.

Hand History #937600625 (22:04 16/08/2015)

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
oldnit	Small blind		200.00	200.00	3027.50
mraggro	Big blind		400.00	600.00	1900.00
	Your hole cards	J 3 6 A
xxxxxx	Fold
Phantom66	Raise		1400.00	2000.00	62.50
oldnit	All-in		3027.50	5027.50	0.00
mraggro	Fold
Phantom66	All-in		62.50	5090.00	0.00
oldnit	Unmatched bet		1765.00	3325.00	1765.00
oldnit	Show	10 10 2 A
Phantom66	Show	J 3 6 A
Flop
		6 Q 5
Turn
		6
River
		Q
Phantom66	Win high	Three 6s	3325.00		3325.00
	No qualifying low hand

YoungUn

In Response to Re: New Rewards - New Challenge (now incorporating "Spin While I'm Winning" a view of life on the new cash spinup tables):

Revised focus for this week is now getting 100pts tonight and a shot at the last chance UKPC FR.
Posted by Phantom66

Just wondering how you're going to approach this? I don't know how much time you have available but I can only play tonight from 9pm onwards, and with work in the morning I can't really stay up beyond 2 (though I imagine traffic would have diminished somewhat if not completely by then anyway). And I won't be home from work early enough to finish the grind. I've only got a bankroll that can multi-table £3 DYM's, £5 at a bit of a stretch. I've done some rough calcs and reckon that if I play 4 tables at once (just at my limit really) I might be able to get it done sometime between 1 and 2, but that depends on whether there's enough traffic to keep up with me. Thoughts?

Phantom66

In Response to Re: New Rewards - New Challenge (now incorporating "Spin While I'm Winning" a view of life on the new cash spinup tables):

In Response to Re: New Rewards - New Challenge (now incorporating "Spin While I'm Winning" a view of life on the new cash spinup tables) : Just wondering how you're going to approach this? I don't know how much time you have available but I can only play tonight from 9pm onwards, and with work in the morning I can't really stay up beyond 2 (though I imagine traffic would have diminished somewhat if not completely by then anyway). And I won't be home from work early enough to finish the grind. I've only got a bankroll that can multi-table £3 DYM's, £5 at a bit of a stretch. I've done some rough calcs and reckon that if I play 4 tables at once (just at my limit really) I might be able to get it done sometime between 1 and 2, but that depends on whether there's enough traffic to keep up with me. Thoughts?
Posted by YoungUn

To make sure of 100, I'll probably have some spinup cash in there.

I will be playing plo8 dyms 3/5 if running and if not some 2/3 6 max nl tables too which on their own probably wouldn't cut it.

If really stuck it will have to be the dreaded £5 turbo dyms

Phantom66

Well that's that then no UKPC seat.

I can't really complain - 2 shots at trying isn't very much and those 2 shots cost me a sum total of £1.40. 1 successful all-in sat into a semi and the last chance Freeroll.

The FR started interestingly, 1st level 4bet jammed on, I have QQ - meh fold I think assuming given the value up for grabs I am flipping at best and most likely crushed. As some of the play later transpired maybe I hadn't factored in this was a FR and should have called. 

Later on once I had realised this was playing a bit looser than I expected I 4bet jam with 99, expecting a fold from the particular opponent - I get called by KTs (so that was a solid read by me - not) and hold. I now have a bit of a stack, a few hands later though and a short stack to my right (happens to be a very very good player) jams over a small raise. With AK and said player and raiser well covered I jam and opener folds. AK v 44 and the poker gods have their fun with a K turn and 4 river, back under starting again. 

Nothing much happens then, card dead always an open raiser before me when in position and the stack dwindles down until after a table move and more of the same for a couple of orbits I am down to 10bb and shove K5 on an unopened for once button and bb has AQ holds gg gn.

The 44 player was stack_u who went on to take a seat so that flip was the start of something good for them and the start of something bad for me.

Really really really must try harder next time to qualify. I do find the SAT schedule is not to my advantage but Sky put on so many opportunities to qualify for these events and I really do want to experience a large event and meet up with the people I converse with in chat and on the forums.

GL to all who have made it to DTD, have fun and dont let the poker get in the way of the poker.

Phantom66

Earlier in the day I had a decent run on SNGs plus an unexpected but welcome addition to the B/R courtesy of the Bug Bounty.

Now I hadn't heard of it so special mention to Red_King for pointing me that direction when I reported the problem in Poker Chat.

Post UKPC FR and Rewards FR busts I played a few more SNGs. Now despite me being an avid recorder of results it didnt actually dawn on me that I was on a losing run. I had been mostly happy with my play and exists were either standard or ul. I had also been mostly on 6max so losing a few in a row is common enough.

I stopped regging for these as I was waiting to pick up Son#2 from his return from the PNE match at Roterham but I hadnt had the 15mins from ground text so hit the spin up tables.

Cue BRUTAL session. 

Most of my hands were HU against 1 player - who was super super aggro.

I folded alot - maybe too much, but kept going because I was just being unlucky when the money went in.

That is what it felt like anyway - so I checked this morning and that was indeed the case.

Out of 26 aipf hands, I was ahead in 15, behind in 9 and flipping once

In fact it was even worse than that. I scored my hands +/- 1 or 2 depending on whether I was ahead or behind or dominating or dominated. So counting those results here is the breaking down of dominating/leading hands v those were I was behind...

+DOM	AHEAD	FLIP	BEHIND	-DOM
6	9	1	7	2

I was +10 on the points score - equivalent of being 60/40 over 10 hands and yet for those aipf hands I lost a total of £8.13 so I was clearly running pretty bad. I'm glad I dodnt stop the analysis there though otherwise I would have just put it down to bad luck.

The key learning point is for that session I lost £17! Where did the other £9 come from? In the rare post flop hands I did ok about B/E. I had just given it up - folded pre from BB and plenty of times have raised to 40p and been put all-in and folded - not every time of course sometimes I had a big hand sometimes I called light for me given the loose image of my opponent.

What a muppet, even if I had run well and reversed that £8 on the all-ins I would have only about broken even due to folding too much.

Help needed! Does anyone have any links to good resources on HU cash play? I have a leak to fix!

Also broke my 5 BI rule again which is disappointing but shows how the mind is deceived into thinking you are playing well just being unlucky so keep going and you will win it back.

shakinaces

I'd imagine there is plenty that could be taken or extrapolated from TeddyBloat's excellent thread in the SitNGo part of the clinic regarding HU play - I know cash is a bit different, but the short-stacked / hyper nature of the Spin Up tables will likely make it as useful as anything you can dig out on deeper stacked HU cash.

Don't envy you on this Spin Up challenge... it does my head in sometimes when losing a couple of big AI hands at normal cash tables in a session, without the increased variance from being AI so much more frequently!

Re: satellites to live events - perhaps just play a set number/time of your normal games with a target win (eg £550 for UKPC) and see those as a different sort, if it remains too problematic to time your play to coincide with the official sats? That's how I try to blag my cash for the recent fake-SPTs anyhow.

Phantom66

RE:The Teddy Bloat stuff - good shout I will dig it out.

Such fine margins really I was looking some more at the numbers from the session. I only actually lost 12/26 of those aipf hands!

The top 5 losses I was actually ahead in 3 of them A7 v 94s and A6 v KQ and A3 v K4 and I was behind but not dominated in the other 2. Those 5 losses were from £3.97 to £4.85.

There were only 3 +£3 hands or better that I won and I was ahead in all 3 dominating in 2, JJ v T4s ATs v QJ and KK v KJ.

So kind of reinforces that I wasn't making bad decisions about when to get my chips in, I was probably making bad decisions about when not to get my chips in though.

But yes very frustrating - maybe the naysayers are right and it's unbeatable - but I'll carry on (after a short break) 

Re B/R for big events - I really hope the SNG SATS get established with a range of options - seems to make it perfect with ladders would need some tech work though. If they could get the flexibility built into tournament tokens so you could save them up that would help too.

It will take me a long time to build a £550 roll and even if I do, I dont think I could punt it on a single ticket, however a roll for a fake SPT should be feasible. 

Phantom66

It's all gone a bit...

unknown_username

In Response to Re: New Rewards - New Challenge (now incorporating "Spin While I'm Winning" a view of life on the new cash spinup tables):

It's all gone a bit...
Posted by Phantom66

Before picture approved.

I delare a comp

Its a picture of Pete Tong.

Phantom66

@Mumsie I so wish that was an elaborate bluff on my part but wp.

This week has not only been my worst one on this challenge it has probably been one of my worst ever.

I was going to play to 500 pts given its double points w/e but I think a break is in order.

I am on holiday for a week from Thursday so that will give me an enforced break anyway.

I'll give a rundown of results on Monday - but in simple terms the spnups spandown and I tilted and the attempted recovery through £3 and £5 SNGs finished it off.

I am due a £5 free bet and tourney tokens and I will get £2.30 rewards - I need them as I am only just above starting balance now.

mrsduck

Unlucky Phantom, the spin ups are insanely swingy, you'll be back in no time

In the meantime have a great holibob! Where are you off to?