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What database apps on Sky are forbidden, and which permitted?
HUD's are forbidden, Gelders.
A Player Database, such as Sharkscope, has always been available on a mixed subscription or free basis, & is not in any way a HUD, which, by definition, works "in game". Sharkscope only gives RESULTS, not in game , hand by hand analysis.
Comments
If you are referring to Aussie's database, that's a thorny one.
It is a Mod Decision to permit it here, & I'll not hide behind anyone, it was 100% my decision to allow it, as I believe it's done primarily in the players best interests, is well-intended, & the info which we see linked to on this Community is free to view. I was not aware until yesterday there was an additional, optional, fee based service, but if I understand it correctly, that's an optional extra.
I have an open mind on this, & am content to review my decision if a significant number of players object, or think it is unreasonable. Unfavourable mention of this was also made by another poster yesterday, so I have to bear that in mind.
Happy to have a constructive discussion on this matter, & will take on board all reasonable views.
I will, if the concensus suggests it is generally not good for Sky Poker's players, ask Rob to desist posting these links, but I hope that's not the case, & I believe the majority agree.
Let's discuss it & see where it takes us.
Until then, I remain firmly of the view that Aussie does this for the players here, in the same way as, say, GaryQQQ runs the Results Thread, & others run Leagues & the like, & not as a means of making money.
All noted Paul.
I was of the opinion that players can view basic info for free.
If I thought it was primarily a Business that Aussie was running, then I'd certainly have to review my decision. At this moment, I don't see it that way, but I have an open mind.
We'll let the threads develop for a day or two, & see where it goes.
He also adds some fun points and categories, and the hero card element is pretty cool.
It's all publically available information, he puts a lot of work into producing the stats.
I know Aussie claims you can draw inferences about playing style from some of the cards he produces, and he made a really ill-advised foray into trying to do so publically on the forum, but honestly it shouldn't bother players. He was making all this info available freely upon request until recently and few people worried about the ethics.
He should certainly offer an opt-out for people who don't want to be included in his databases.
I've been very critical of the claims aussie09 has made about his dataset and in particular his claims of effectiveness in terms of deducting playing style, i have no dog in the fight. To compare it to hand history databases or HUDs shows a fundamental lack of knowledge of both what a hud is and can and can't do, and also of what Aussies service is and its usefulness at the tables. It's a bizarre comparison to make to be honest.
I think the work he puts into his site has value and that he is entitled to charge a small fee for what is a unique and very popular and fun service.
I abso agree there should be (maybe already is?) an opt out. I am pretty sure Aussie has previously stated that players can opt out if they so wish.
I also abso agree there is no correlation whatsoever between a HUD, & a Sharkscope/Aussie type results service.
Personally, though I'd be grateful that there is a fun service like this. It's unique to sky and very cheap.
Honestly wouldn't be concerned at all if I was a reg featured in his site.
If I have jumped to the wrong conclusion, my apologies go to Geldy, but it seems to me the subject needed airing, this was a boil waiting to be pr....pri....pric..... - well you get my drift.
There is, of course, no correlation at all between a HUD & a player database site such as Sharkscope, or Rob's site.
Sky Poker remain vigorously anti HUD & all other similar third party software which runs in game.
The advertising point was raised, clarified and deemed acceptable by Tommy and Tikay yesterday.
It is not a HUD or comparable to one, so that has started a bit of a red herring.
Big +1 To Teddy's post.
It must take a lot of time and effort for Aussie to do what he does.
People can make their own judgements as to the value to their game and whether it is worth subscribing for additional pay-to-view services.
A clear opt-out option should be in place imo.
^^^ (Craig's post)
Rob is more than welcome to contribute to the debate.
This is a very unusual situation, as I have no power or authority in any Sky Poker matters at all, I just convey messages, & make suggestions, act as a bridge between players & The Business, but this particular baby IS my responsibility, as a Moderator, so I'm keen to have the debate, hopefully in good heart, then take a look & see if I need to think again.
I have to add I like Rob, & think he brings a lot to our Community, & we often have private discussions about this & that via private e-Mails. We have, however, not discussed these recent concerns, nor will we, we will both keep our hands clean.
The Site does not affect me personally, of course, as I don't play MTT's, but I'm very much a live & let live sort as long as significant offence is not being given, so to me, personally, it makes no odds either way. It means a great deal to Rob though.
"....A clear opt-out option should be in place imo. ..."
Yes, I agree 100%.
Of course if you are using most browsers, your activity will be mined and targeted advertising produced and the US authorities will be also be storing all of that information in a large data warehouse.
SkyPoker will have to comply with the Data Protection Act as they have access to your personal data, i.e. information that is identifiable as you. They will have to process that information fairly and lawfully and keep it safe and secure.
When joining you give them access to your name. address, contact details, date of birth and payment details.
You will consent to their Terms and Conditions and are aware that your alias results are publically available in the lobbies if you enter a SNG or MTT.
They also have a Privacy Notice (link at bottom left) which is requirement of the DPA.
So this information (your alias and tournament results) is published on the site with your consent.
Sharkscope as far as I am aware are not in breach of the DPA as they take publically available information identifiable only via a poker alias.
You can opt out of Sharkscope if you wish.
We'd probably not object to Sharkscope Links were it not for the fact that all manner of non-compliant (to Sky Poker) advertising is on that site. I'm not talking on non-stop Sharkscope spamming, I'm thinking of players who post their Sharkscope graphs & the like, which seems fine to me.
I don't see any of this quite as black & white as some, there are always degrees of right & wrong, & I'm simply keen to help make this Forum user & player friendly for as many as possible. If I need to make some tough decisions, I will.
"Alias" is the key.
They don't publish personal information, only that which is in the domain.
Dare I suggest that the site in question here could consider a similar approach to cover costs? If it truly is useful to poker players that are profiting from the site, a decent amount of donations should be forthcoming at a price deemed acceptable to the user (also avoiding any false advertising issues as noted elsewhere in this thread).
Everyone wins?