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i know that you do help lots on here with advice and encouragment that is not in doubt and was not meant that way just why when it does not affect you have you such an interest?
And as for aussies site helping bring people on site not really sure how as most new players know nothing about scope let alone robs site so how does it help drive traffic as really it is only sky players who know about it after the threads on the forum and i think this is where people worry is the info being/or going to be sold onto 3rd party sites.
As i said in other post you should have to opt in before your info is displayed for anyone that knows about the site even when you don't that is just unfair.
And as for the im staked too play on another site whats stopping you playing with your own money on sky?
I will endeavour to catch up on this thread later today, or in the morning.
:@}
or is this bit..really it is only sky players who know about it after the threads on the forum and i think this is where people worry is the info being/or going to be sold onto 3rd party sites. again nothing about sky.
I have said nothing about sky other than...Think as someone else has said maybe rob could allow someone from sky admin access (but is sky really going to pay an employee to continually look through his site) to ease peoples fears.
So please tell where/when i said i had fears of sky selling my info.
Given that auusie / scope are 3rd party sites, the phrase: "people are worried their info is going to be sold onto 3rd party sites" implies, well , that people are worried their info is going to be sold onto 3rd party sites. Hope you can see where the confusion arises.
Apologies for not getting the correct meaning.
I get the feeling you are getting a little defensive. I can assure you there's no need. This has so far been a pleasant and reasoned debate.
If we allow each other leeway and not assume bad intentions it might stand a chance of staying that way
If you can elaborate as to why you think them similar it might help the debate
Think some people have only got annoyed since the paywall was introduced even although before that they where quite happy to have hero cards made go figure.
But on other hand don't really understand those that use sharkscope complaining as he is doing the same thing.
Also think some people have forgotten how much rob has done for the forum as well.
all the best brian
If by railscope you mean someone datamining a persons play and using the mass-hand-histories to compile stats on a players tendencies, then railscope would be very much like a HUD - with two major differences.
1 the data in a HUD is all from games you have observed and played in / railscope is from games you have not seen or played in
2 HUDs are perfectly legal on most sites / datamined hands most definately are not.
again there appears to be a very basic misunderstanding of these things.
agreed. railscope is more like a HUD. but again with a HUD you will slowly build data as you accumulate hands on a player, and it is a perfectly legal and widely accepted tool in online poker. with dataminded hands you instantly have much more data than you could ever hope to accumulate by playing with a player. this data is illegal and widely frowned upon.
sharkscope does not resemble this in any way.
sharkscoping an opponent does give you information. the subset of players that lose money in MTTs play sufficiently differently from the subset of players that win money in MTTs. and you can combign other subests such as average buy in, average games per day etc etc and evaluate certain things.
however, this entails work. it isnt immediately obvious what playing tendencies will show up unless you do a lot of your own research.
incidently the subset of players from hungary play radically different from the other subsets in my games. it is a very reliable read.
you can also make inferences from player names, avatars etc etc. there is lots of publically available data that allows you to place a player within a certain population.
sharkscope /aussie scope provides some very limited information. the benefit gained is proportional to the work put into using that information. this basic information is provided by sky poker in the lobbies of tournaments.
the information in HUDs is accrued through playing a player.
both are legal and widely accepted as being fair and a part of online poker.
railscope provides information by datamining players, collating data from hands you have not observed and is illegal and widely accepted as being scummy.
the data provided by a HUD is indeed only useful if interpreted correctly. many users would be better without having the data distracting them. ditto sharkscope.
railscope or datamining also needs skill. ok so you know villain raises 80% of buttons - what hands are better 3bet than flatted. what boards can you check-raise etc. this will also require off the table work. the major difference is that because of the volume of hands being traded you CAN build a pretty accurate picture of a player's game without ever have played them.
it is why it is illegal, frowned upon and in a radically different class to using a HUD or looking up a players profit on sharkscope
HUDs collect observed data. if i see you raise 4/4 buttons i can keep a tally sheet on a piece of paper, or i can have a hud automate that tallying. the effect is the same. there is no privacy being breached.
if i look in the lobby of every MTT running on sky with an av. buy-in above £50, i can note the winner and losers. i am not breaching privacy laws by doing so. no real names are used and players when they sign up presumably agree to thier alias being visible in MTT lobbies.
no personal data is being passed around, merely the result of online poker tournaments. scope and aussie automate this for me.
people can opt out of both sharkscope and aussie scope.
railscope relies on datamining which is - i would bet - a breach of terms of service on all sites.
players cannot opt out [actually there is a notorious dataming site that sells HH's that charges $1000s to opt out of its database of hands].
i can see how much players have won / lost v me in my database.
i can also see how much various aliases have won / lost in games i have not played.
i can do this by looking through the lobbies manually. i can collate this into a database like aussie and sharkscope have done.
or i can use aussies or sharkscopes database.
players can opt out of having the data associated with thier alias being publically available.
this doesnt strike me as a major privacy issue or one resembling the issue of datamined HH's being sold
datamining provides a complete picture of a player / implicit or explicit advice on how to play against a player [which why i was so vocal about aussie attempting / claiming to do just that] and is many orders of magnitude more useful. it is therefore many orders of magnitude more harmful. hence absolutely no sites allowing the practice.
you cannot opt out of this either.
saying that HH dataminig is similar to sharkscope in that they both claim to improve results is a baffling statement to me. plenty of things are similar in some over-arching general way: absinthe and sprouts are green; water and vodka are clear liquids; aerobic exercise and a glass of red wine with a meal are both said to be good for you.
swing and swongs aint in it, gelders squire.
they arent even close to being the same thing.
by railscope i am assuming you mean sites that datamine players and sell on their HH's or stats by position
no.
on WPN the winning player doesnt see them either lol
and, yes i am still baffled.
if you really are saying that HUDs and aussies site are similar in the same way that absinthe and sprouts are similar then you arent saying much at all.
why you would want sky to treat aussies site as being in anyway similar to a HH datamining site or even a HUD is gloriously baffling to me. especially when scope and aussies site can generate interest in games and promote the site.
i want to go to america...
yes, sir we have this lovely rowing boat
its £3000, i can get a ticket first class on concorde for that
they will both get you across the atlantic, they are essentially the same.
Your original thread title included the word and you just made a 6 point post detailing how huds and sharkscope are similar. You also introduced the idea of railscope into the mix and made further comparisons.
It was that that I was rebutting.
If you aren't comfortable with scope you can opt out. It doesn't seem a massive issue to me, and I'm genuinely puzzled by the reactions in this thread.
I imagine more people enjoy using scope than not, hence sky allowing it. I also firmly believe it promotes games and the site which may be another reason.