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But mucked hands are mucked for all.
Even the players involved cannot see them in the HH
I remain perplexed as to why 'railscope', huds and aussies site are being lumped together in this thread
I remain perplexed as to why the results of poker tournaments bejng posted on a site you can opt out of is harmful to a player or a huge privacy issue that cant be easily resolved without banning it for the vast majority that evidently enjoy looking at their own or others stats.
How many abuses of promotions or incidents of collusion have been uncovered by forum users using sharkscope btw?
I can think of 4 in my few years on the forum.
^^^
+1 to that, it must be stressed that Online Results Databases such as Sharky & Rob's site do not even remotely contravene the DPA. It's no different to publishing football scores, or the local Darts League results, or Gary's Results Thread, the information is freely available in the domain.
When we you play Online Poker, lots of sites will be gathering data on us, no matter what site we play on.
The screen-names are not part of the DPA requirement, it's the information behind them that is sensitive.
When a player signs up to an Online Poker site, they are required to give all sorts of data - DOB, age, identity, etc. That info is subject to DPA regulations, & must ONLY be used for it's intended purpose. It may not be disseminated or sold, it's private. The scree-names are NOT private, but there is no linkage. The sites that gather & collate the results of MTT's & DYM's have no access to the personal details, only the screen-names.
Some may not like that, but it's a fact of life, & will never change, & if we play Online Poker, sites will gather data. None of that conflicts in any way whatsoever with the DPA or "privacy rules".
Presumably you missed Rob's post a day earlier.....
"....now, because of notes like yours, i choose not to post results, nor best player on the forum. i have done so because it has been fun. it is intended to be interesting to forum readers. i do not need to do it, i choose to. but there is a limit to the abuse that should be tolerated.
........
no matter, i choose not to post these things on the forum. this takes any decision away from tikay. it is all superfluous...."
And Rob has not posted anything on the Forum since he wrote that, either about his site, or anything else. Nobody seems to have commented upon that. The insults & sarcasm added nothing to the debate, &, imo, reflected badly on the authors. It was a debate, there was no need for personal insults in my opinion.
That vilification has even spilled over on to the poker Tables, & for the last 2 evenings, I've had to observe a player on my table making sarcastic jibes at Rob & myself, which I think is bang out of order. Rob can't defend himself against those comments, & I try to keep business, & my own leisure time playing poker, completely separate, so I just had to stay schtum & observe these things being said.
Let's just try & put some context on this. Rob was a very popular (with most, not all) members here, he helped with lots of things, aside from his results database - Jackpot Updates, prompts when a Tourney was missing from the schedule, all sorts. His site & those "Hero Cards" received many glowing tributes, & requests for Hero Cards.
Sentiment changed after the "whale" thread, & I agree, I think that was wrong, & this accelerated when the option to pay for a particular part was made available, I get that too. I get all that, I do.
Around 9 months ago, I forget exactly, but it was just before the time I was given responsibility for this Forum by the then Head of Poker, Rob got a chat ban here. There was overwhelming support for him to be reinstated. Rob, myself & The Business worked together, over a long period, to get him reinstated. I think that was the right thing to do, as - imo - the ban was a mistake, a complete misunderstanding. When Rob was reinstated, there was much warmth shown that he had returned.
It's just my opinion, but I think he's a good man, & means well, & that sentiment seemed widely held. He has not turned into some dreadful person overnight, so I'm as puzzled by the animosity & insults as anything, to be honest.
It now seems he is lost to this Community. To my mind, that's a significant loss to us, & I think it's very sad.
Anyway, it is what it is.
Peace to you all.
Your lack of understanding of data protection laws, HUDs, HH datamining sites and sky poker policy / forum policy has been specifically addressed in detail and in a calm, reasoned and at times patient manner (I notice you used the term dataminning again in the post above - the word has a certain specific meaning in poker, its a pejorative that is not fairly applied to aussies site). Tikay even explained at length how he made his decisions and in some detail.
I don't think its fair to say you've had any concern shoved up any orrifice by any person.
With regard to Aussie, I've had some prickly debates with him in the past. I think some leeway should be afforded him, reading between the lines I think there is a reason for the 'pricklinesss' and its not because he doesn't mean well. Quite the opposite. There maybe a reason tikay feels he wants to speak for Aussie in these circumstances, he certainly holds him in high regard which is good enough for me.
3rd party software is much misunderstood - as shown in this thread - i make no apology for attempting to debunk some myths and fill in some of the blanks in the debate.
i understand your concens, i just think they are baseless.
glgl
Teddy.
If you felt inclined to help further - & your contributions on this thread have been pitched perfectly - perhaps you would consider writing a Blog about these things.
Something like explaining the pros & cons of the different things touched on in this thread, as it's clear there is a lot of misunderstanding of what's what. I'm not here to argue with or upset anyone, but the level of misunderstanding of some things has been something of a surprise. Understanding them better has to be a good thing.
HUD's
Datamining
Results databases.
Apps (as far as I know, none of them are App based).
And for each of those (& any other you think relevant), why they are good or bad, what we can learn from each of them, how do we interpret what they tell us.
If you are agreeable, I'll PM you my e-Mail address, & if you send it across, I'll Post it on the Official Sky Poker Blog, or "Latest News", & promote it to a wide readership.
I can't compensate you with a Free Entry for a MTT, as you can't play here at present, but I would if I could.
I'll PM you my e-Mail address. No need to reply, just write it as & when you find a bit of time. Does not need to be overly long, somewhere between 500-1,000 words is ample.
So much of the mood of this thread has been due to misunderstanding each other, what these things are, & what they do, & who else allows or forbids their use.
Thank you.
Teddy - PM sent.
poker tracker, which is the market leader and used by a huge % of professional players and recreationals alike - costs £40 for lowstakes players. that is for a life time use.
if you play the nosebleed stakes £1000 buyins, it costs you £60. for life time use.
there is no barrier to entry. plenty of recreational players use them [speaking to a chap who sells premium HUDs most of his customers are LOSING players who play for fun].
HFT is indeed a dark art requiring access to dark pools, elaborate algorythms and cruically relies on accessig information not available to the general trading public. you could not become a HF trader for £40
you can own the same tracking software as isuldur1 for £40.
To be honest, I don't know what to say, or how to say it, the thread has taken my breath away.
Aussiescope is not an App, & neither Sharky or Aussie are "datamining". Datamining in poker is something completely & totally different, & very few approve of it.
Not a level playing field? Depends how you see it. Those who put in extra work, by training sites, coaching, reviewing HH's, & subscribing to Sharky & the like will do better, yes. But those things are available to everyone. Just because we don't all choose to use them, does not translate to being unfair. Lots of guys do better than I do at poker because they put a lot of effort into getting better by subscribing to coaching, or sites like Sharky. I'm not sure that makes it "unfair", they put more effort into it & reap more rewards. That seems intrinsically fair to me.
I could make notes on every result if I wished, would that be unfair on others? I'd have to work harder than them though.
For the record, I do refer to Sharky, as do many others. I don't feel any guilt about that, they can all do the same as me, & for 5 (?) searches a day, which is all most of us at the basic level need, it's free.
I do have an issue that Sharky take that info for free, & sell it on, but they do have to collate & sort it.
I'm opposed to HUD's for a different reason, but that's another & different story altogether.
Personally, I have no idea how Sharky, Aussie or Gary collect their results, but they don't have any access you or I don't have.