ah, more school playground talk. sincerely. Posted by aussie09
Ger has a point Aussie
Also i dont think you havnt replied to anything Geldy has said. The old thread that he dug up is very interesting as it was said: -
A opt in option is better than having to opt out. It also has alot more details but i suppose peoples opinions can change.
Also in the sky community guidelines it says
Links
Links to sites which seek to gain commercially from the link being there will be removed and users are asked to refrain from posting them. For example, posting to a competitor’s website would very much be a no-go. Posting of links to external sites will be permitted if doing so adds something to the quality of the discussion. Posting YouTube links is fine as long as the videos are not deemed to be in favour of competitors – so again, posting a link to a poker show which is heavily branded by another online poker room will soon find itself removed. Please use some judgment when posting links.
Yes the site may not gain massive commercially just yet but by posting it on the forum everyday will really help.
he has a point? his point was a personal criticism and questioning my sincerrity. ger's last post was just an insult and nothing else.
for your information, i have taken time to answer the majority of posts, but chosen not to from those who resort to being abusive or who want to create an argument. i am not putting any effort into responding to those.
the old thread was nothing to do with me and i see no need to comment.
you post about links, which says, "posting to a competitor's website ..." etc. my website is not a competitor's website. and says, "posting of links to external sites will be permitted if doing so adds something... " my website does. It says, "please use some judgement when posting links". This is where we are, without insults, judge for oneself.
posting on the forum is one way people can find information on sky poker tournament results, player leagues, hero cards, UKOPS and other stuff. but it is only one way. people don't need to go from the forum to find the website. google, yahoo, facebook, twitter and other social media, indeed other poker forums, carry far more people to the website than this forum. know also that competitor websites are keen for me to carry their corporate messages but i have declined those opportunities.
asserting that i am not sincere is unfair. unacceptable.
stuarty he has a point? his point was a personal criticism and questioning my sincerrity. ger's last post was just an insult and nothing else. for your information, i have taken time to answer the majority of posts, but chosen not to from those who resort to being abusive or who want to create an argument. i am not putting any effort into responding to those. the old thread was nothing to do with me and i see no need to comment. you post about links, which says, "posting to a competitor's website ..." etc. my website is not a competitor's website. and says, "posting of links to external sites will be permitted if doing so adds something... " my website does. It says, "please use some judgement when posting links". This is where we are, without insults, judge for oneself. posting on the forum is one way people can find information on sky poker tournament results, player leagues, hero cards, UKOPS and other stuff. but it is only one way. people don't need to go from the forum to the website. facebook, twitter and other social media carry far more people to the website. competitor websites are keen for me to carry their corporate messages but i have declined those opportunities. asserting that i am not sincere is unfair. unacceptable. Posted by aussie09
If this is the case then all more reason to stop promoting the site on the forum, given the unrest it has caused?
how many people post links to sharkscope in their diary?
lets turn it around. given that sk already allow links to commercial player-results databases [sharkscope], why should they make a special case and ban links aussies?
why are people more concerned about aussie's site than sharkscope?
one good reason for sky allowing both links to scope and aussie's site is they also gain commercially from the interest those sites generate.
only one site currently have an opt-in policy for scope and that is stars. 888 recently went back to opt-out and WPN allowed scope to publish their results. i'd strongly argue that scope generates interest in poker and is a very positive thing.
i'm genuinely perplexed as to why people who are ok with sharkscope are against aussie's site.
In Response to Re: What database apps on Sky are forbidden, and which permitted? : If this is the case then all more reason to stop promoting the site on the forum, given the unrest it has caused? Posted by waller02
so, by that, are you proposing that we make it more difficult for players on sky poker to access this information from this forum or make it easier?
stuarty he has a point? his point was a personal criticism and questioning my sincerrity. ger's last post was just an insult and nothing else. for your information, i have taken time to answer the majority of posts, but chosen not to from those who resort to being abusive or who want to create an argument. i am not putting any effort into responding to those. the old thread was nothing to do with me and i see no need to comment. you post about links, which says, "posting to a competitor's website ..." etc. my website is not a competitor's website. and says, "posting of links to external sites will be permitted if doing so adds something... " my website does. It says, "please use some judgement when posting links". This is where we are, without insults, judge for oneself. posting on the forum is one way people can find information on sky poker tournament results, player leagues, hero cards, UKOPS and other stuff. but it is only one way. people don't need to go from the forum to find the website. google, yahoo, facebook, twitter and other social media, indeed other poker forums, carry far more people to the website than this forum. know also that competitor websites are keen for me to carry their corporate messages but i have declined those opportunities. asserting that i am not sincere is unfair. unacceptable. Posted by aussie09
You seemed to have missed this part
Links to sites which seek to gain commercially from the link being there will be removed and users are asked to refrain from posting them.
stuarty he has a point? his point was a personal criticism and questioning my sincerrity. ger's last post was just an insult and nothing else. for your information, i have taken time to answer the majority of posts, but chosen not to from those who resort to being abusive or who want to create an argument. i am not putting any effort into responding to those. the old thread was nothing to do with me and i see no need to comment. you post about links, which says, "posting to a competitor's website ..." etc. my website is not a competitor's website. and says, "posting of links to external sites will be permitted if doing so adds something... " my website does. It says, "please use some judgement when posting links". This is where we are, without insults, judge for oneself. posting on the forum is one way people can find information on sky poker tournament results, player leagues, hero cards, UKOPS and other stuff. but it is only one way. people don't need to go from the forum to find the website. google, yahoo, facebook, twitter and other social media, indeed other poker forums, carry far more people to the website than this forum. know also that competitor websites are keen for me to carry their corporate messages but i have declined those opportunities. asserting that i am not sincere is unfair. unacceptable. Posted by aussie09
You seemed to have missed this part
Links to sites which seek to gain commercially from the link being there will be removed and users are asked to refrain from posting them.
In Response to Re: What database apps on Sky are forbidden, and which permitted? : If this is the case then all more reason to stop promoting the site on the forum, given the unrest it has caused? Posted by waller02
This thread is the greatest promotion of this site i have seen... I didnt know anything about it until reading all this and as did i , i am sure everyone else will pop by to see what all the fuss is about... just saying ....
In Response to Re: What database apps on Sky are forbidden, and which permitted? : You seemed to have missed this part Links to sites which seek to gain commercially from the link being there will be removed and users are asked to refrain from posting them. Posted by stuarty117
In Response to Re: What database apps on Sky are forbidden, and which permitted? : so, by that, are you proposing that we make it more difficult for players on sky poker to access this information from this forum or make it easier? Posted by aussie09
A high proportion of posters in this thread have stated they are against having their stats posted on your site, or they are against you being allowed to advertise you site on a daily basis.
You have also stated that the vast majority of visitors to your site come via facebook and twitter........so what I have suggested seems quite fair.
If what you say is true then the number of visits to your site would not be affected so no longer posting a link on here would silence the haters and have no effect on your site traffic.
I mean no offence here aussie, you obviously put a lot of time into it but it does seem to have caused significant upset.
In Response to Re: What database apps on Sky are forbidden, and which permitted? : This thread is the greatest promotion of this site i have seen... I didnt know anything about it until reading all this and as did i , i am sure everyone else will pop by to see what all the fuss is about... just saying .... Posted by vinny67
Yes, but they have to be on the Sky poker forum in the first place so I dont see how it is promoting the site, especially as there is a thread like this showing the upset it is causing.
Like i said earlier, I'm not fussed either way but I was intrigued by the uproar it seems to have caused so was just suggesting what seems like a fair solution. It is certainly a good debate eiher way.
In Response to Re: What database apps on Sky are forbidden, and which permitted? : No i dont care anymore as sky have oked it. Good luck with it and hope its very successful Posted by stuarty117
They have?
I'm engaged with other matters at the moment, but I explained the situation earlier in the thread, & that remains the case until the debate has concluded, & a decision is made.
In Response to Re: What database apps on Sky are forbidden, and which permitted? : A high proportion of posters in this thread have stated they are against having their stats posted on your site, or they are against you being allowed to advertise you site on a daily basis. You have also stated that the vast majority of visitors to your site come via facebook and twitter........so what I have suggested seems quite fair. If what you say is true then the number of visits to your site would not be affected so no longer posting a link on here would silence the haters and have no effect on your site traffic. I mean no offence here aussie, you obviously put a lot of time into it but it does seem to have caused significant upset. Posted by waller02
In Response to Re: What database apps on Sky are forbidden, and which permitted? : Yes, but they have to be on the Sky poker forum in the first place so I dont see how it is promoting the site, especially as there is a thread like this showing the upset it is causing. Like i said earlier, I'm not fussed either way but I was intrigued by the uproar it seems to have caused so was just suggesting what seems like a fair solution. It is certainly a good debate eiher way. Posted by waller02
Agree with both points - it's very definitely a worthwhile debate, but I'm more than a little perplexed by the heat it has caused, it does not seem (to me) to be a subject anyone should fall out about.
Anyway, we shall see. A decision will be made in due course, & then of course, it will all kick off again, whatever way the decision falls.
In Response to Re: What database apps on Sky are forbidden, and which permitted? : They have? I'm engaged with other matters at the moment, but I explained the situation earlier in the thread, & that remains the case until the debate has concluded, & a decision is made. Posted by Tikay10
Well i guess even if its only temporary at the minute
I wish you had a 'viewers' count to your site Rob. I still maintain that the vast majority are for and appreciate the work you do. A 'handfull' of folk who are stating negativity for it hopefully will not sway Sky's view on it. Amazing that a public forum can be used by a few who will post their comments which they hope will influence decisions on the FREE work you do for the site and players.
Just hope you continue and not let the minority spoil it for you.
I wish you had a 'viewers' count to your site Rob. I still maintain that the vast majority are for and appreciate the work you do. A 'handfull' of folk who are stating negativity for it hopefully will not sway Sky's view on it. Amazing that a public forum can be used by a few who will post their comments which they hope will influence decisions on the FREE work you do for the site and players. Just hope you continue and not let the minority spoil it for you. Posted by MAXALLY
If I thought it was primarily a Business that Aussie was running, then I'd certainly have to review my decision. At this moment, I don't see it that way, but I have an open mind. We'll let the threads develop for a day or two, & see where it goes. Posted by Tikay10
I think its reasonable to assume its becoming a business if not one already.
on sharkscope you can see that you've opted out. aussie site did allow free access on some stuff, now not so much, its impossible to know if your info is hidden unless a paid member checks its-no regulation.
players don't like the idea that when playing the £33 BH mains, detailed info about their average number of bounties, ROI, relative place in the field, winnings that year from a specific set of tournament: all info not available if you've opted out on SS to be revealed. there is more info on aussie site than a free search on sharkscope for a non opted out player.
rec players don't want to feel that other players in the field have more info at their fingertips than they do, esp if they have to pay (no matter how little) to have the same processed info.
@TK, if you follow this thread, you'll notice that aussie doesn't defend against any of the specific fact related complaints. Teddy chimes in to say its ok and the info if not that useful and many regular forum users have said their 'uneasy' about it.
In Response to Re: I thought HUDs on Sky were forbidden : I think its reasonable to assume its becoming a business if not one already. on sharkscope you can see that you've opted out. aussie site did allow free access on some stuff, now not so much, its impossible to know if your info is hidden unless a paid member checks its-no regulation. players don't like the idea that when playing the £33 BH mains, detailed info about their average number of bounties, ROI, relative place in the field, winnings that year from a specific set of tournament: all info not available if you've opted out on SS to be revealed. there is more info on aussie site than a free search on sharkscope for a non opted out player. rec players don't want to feel that other players in the field have more info at their fingertips than they do, esp if they have to pay (no matter how little) to have the same processed info. @TK, if you follow this thread, you'll notice that aussie doesn't defend against any of the specific fact related complaints. Teddy chimes in to say its ok and the info if not that useful and many regular forum users have said their 'uneasy' about it. Posted by suzy666
Suzy some players may not but I personally think the majority don't mind in the slightest, I don't play as much on here as i used to, however i do login everyday, as I still do some mod work on herenand still love the whole community thing on sky. I also check robs' site regularly as I find it fascinating, and Rob has put a tremendous amount of time unpaid into this, quite simply if someone doesn't like it opt out as Rob has clearly said he will do this for any who wish it.
In Response to Re: I thought HUDs on Sky were forbidden : I think its reasonable to assume its becoming a business if not one already. on sharkscope you can see that you've opted out. aussie site did allow free access on some stuff, now not so much, its impossible to know if your info is hidden unless a paid member checks its-no regulation. players don't like the idea that when playing the £33 BH mains, detailed info about their average number of bounties, ROI, relative place in the field, winnings that year from a specific set of tournament: all info not available if you've opted out on SS to be revealed. there is more info on aussie site than a free search on sharkscope for a non opted out player. rec players don't want to feel that other players in the field have more info at their fingertips than they do, esp if they have to pay (no matter how little) to have the same processed info. @TK, if you follow this thread, you'll notice that aussie doesn't defend against any of the specific fact related complaints. Teddy chimes in to say its ok and the info if not that useful and many regular forum users have said their 'uneasy' about it. Posted by suzy666
Well please be assured, I DO follow this thread, every single post, I was first to reply on it, & until the UKPC began, I was amongst the most active posters on it.
I noted this comment, by you, too....
".....as usual sky haven't been proactive in making it clear what is allowed...."
Which I thought was a little unfair, unless I misunderstood it, (if so, my apologies) as I've been active in this thread, & tried to show both sides of the debate, & I don't generally swerve any questions on this Forum.
As I explained, perhaps poorly, its not as straightforward as some may suggest, & there are genuine views from both sides which are relevant.
So I suggested we have a good debate about it before coming to a decision. And that's what is happening.
Best burnt or scolded, as Grandma Kendall used to say.
I wish you had a 'viewers' count to your site Rob. I still maintain that the vast majority are for and appreciate the work you do. A 'handfull' of folk who are stating negativity for it hopefully will not sway Sky's view on it. Amazing that a public forum can be used by a few who will post their comments which they hope will influence decisions on the FREE work you do for the site and players. Just hope you continue and not let the minority spoil it for you. Posted by MAXALLY
But is that not a key use of the forum, being a public place to debate issues affecting the users of the site.
I dislike the idea that there are people mining data that some think could be used against me, and, based on previous debates we've had on the forum I was under the impression that I was not alone in holding that view. Views change, and from my perspective I've become less happy with this. While it was a leaderboard then that was a relatively harmless piece of fun, but now it has become very invasive. Being able to opt-out obviously helps those of us who know about it, but is it fair on all the non-community SkyPoker players who are oblivious to this going on that all their data is being collected and sold on to others. SkyPoker has never supported sharkscope's data mining activities, and I was under the impression that some here found that activity distasteful.
A big attraction of SkyPoker is it's non-HUD policy. I now appreciate that this data is different, but the concept is still the same. It creates an unequal playing field with those in the know able to easily access more info about the games of others. Hardly a great selling point to attract and retain the recreational player.
SkyPoker will do what's best for it's business I sure, I'd just like to know what that is going to be. I'm not being abusive or trying to create an argument, whatever Aussie may imply.
Finally I think Tikay has been meticulously fair in how he has allowed this debate to be aired, which I personally think is a debate worth having.
If the link to the site from forum is removed it does not necessarily mean the site would be taken down from the net. It could mean that unaware players no longer have a chance to find out about it and don't get a chance to access the same info as those already aware. One complaint I noticed was about a lack of oversight, if removed from the forum the amount of oversight would likely be significantly less. I strongly doubt aussie would state 1 thing about opt outs and be doing another behind the pay wall but as this is a concern to others I'm sure he'd give a member of the sky forum staff free access to all paid content as a form of moderation.
As for whether it's a good thing or bad thing.. I can understand it makes a lot of people uncomfortable but also that the leaderboard side of things can provide another form of fun competition and motivation. I guess with the amount of times I have seen people use others' long term results on the table to insult and abuse others, that that side of results recording and availability is not good. But this info would still largely be available on sharkscope either way so who knows!
Comments
You are in a wolrd of tloubre now.
ah, more school playground talk.
sincerely.
Cone on Gents, we really do want to have a good debate on this (as I noted earlier in the thread), let's not start getting personal.
Links
Links to sites which seek to gain commercially from the link being there will be removed and users are asked to refrain from posting them. For example, posting to a competitor’s website would very much be a no-go. Posting of links to external sites will be permitted if doing so adds something to the quality of the discussion. Posting YouTube links is fine as long as the videos are not deemed to be in favour of competitors – so again, posting a link to a poker show which is heavily branded by another online poker room will soon find itself removed. Please use some judgment when posting links.
Yes the site may not gain massive commercially just yet but by posting it on the forum everyday will really help.
stuarty
he has a point? his point was a personal criticism and questioning my sincerrity. ger's last post was just an insult and nothing else.
for your information, i have taken time to answer the majority of posts, but chosen not to from those who resort to being abusive or who want to create an argument. i am not putting any effort into responding to those.
the old thread was nothing to do with me and i see no need to comment.
you post about links, which says, "posting to a competitor's website ..." etc. my website is not a competitor's website. and says, "posting of links to external sites will be permitted if doing so adds something... " my website does. It says, "please use some judgement when posting links". This is where we are, without insults, judge for oneself.
posting on the forum is one way people can find information on sky poker tournament results, player leagues, hero cards, UKOPS and other stuff. but it is only one way. people don't need to go from the forum to find the website. google, yahoo, facebook, twitter and other social media, indeed other poker forums, carry far more people to the website than this forum. know also that competitor websites are keen for me to carry their corporate messages but i have declined those opportunities.
asserting that i am not sincere is unfair. unacceptable.
lets turn it around. given that sk already allow links to commercial player-results databases [sharkscope], why should they make a special case and ban links aussies?
why are people more concerned about aussie's site than sharkscope?
one good reason for sky allowing both links to scope and aussie's site is they also gain commercially from the interest those sites generate.
only one site currently have an opt-in policy for scope and that is stars. 888 recently went back to opt-out and WPN allowed scope to publish their results. i'd strongly argue that scope generates interest in poker and is a very positive thing.
i'm genuinely perplexed as to why people who are ok with sharkscope are against aussie's site.
I'm engaged with other matters at the moment, but I explained the situation earlier in the thread, & that remains the case until the debate has concluded, & a decision is made.
Anyway, we shall see. A decision will be made in due course, & then of course, it will all kick off again, whatever way the decision falls.
Massive +1
on sharkscope you can see that you've opted out. aussie site did allow free access on some stuff, now not so much, its impossible to know if your info is hidden unless a paid member checks its-no regulation.
players don't like the idea that when playing the £33 BH mains, detailed info about their average number of bounties, ROI, relative place in the field, winnings that year from a specific set of tournament: all info not available if you've opted out on SS to be revealed. there is more info on aussie site than a free search on sharkscope for a non opted out player.
rec players don't want to feel that other players in the field have more info at their fingertips than they do, esp if they have to pay (no matter how little) to have the same processed info.
@TK, if you follow this thread, you'll notice that aussie doesn't defend against any of the specific fact related complaints. Teddy chimes in to say its ok and the info if not that useful and many regular forum users have said their 'uneasy' about it.
I noted this comment, by you, too....
".....as usual sky haven't been proactive in making it clear what is allowed...."
Which I thought was a little unfair, unless I misunderstood it, (if so, my apologies) as I've been active in this thread, & tried to show both sides of the debate, & I don't generally swerve any questions on this Forum.
As I explained, perhaps poorly, its not as straightforward as some may suggest, & there are genuine views from both sides which are relevant.
So I suggested we have a good debate about it before coming to a decision. And that's what is happening.
Best burnt or scolded, as Grandma Kendall used to say.