What database apps on Sky are forbidden, and which permitted?

FeelGroggy

I really don't understand the outcry of Aussie's site. If he's providing an opt out function for those who feel sensitive about their results being broadcast then its just the same as Sharkscope. 

FCHD

Can someone tell me how to get all my data opted out? All I can see is an option to request to be opted out of the "hero card", not the whole site. Even that laughingly in a request to remove data is an on-line form asking for more personal data (e.g. email address)

aussie09

In Response to Re: What database apps on Sky are forbidden, and which permitted?:

Can someone tell me how to get all my data opted out? All I can see is an option to request to be opted out of the "hero card", not the whole site. Even that laughingly in a request to remove data is an on-line form asking for more personal data (e.g. email address)
Posted by FCHD

i have done that for you FCHD.  you are blocked.


 

aussie09

In Response to Re: What database apps on Sky are forbidden, and which permitted?:

In Response to Re: What database apps on Sky are forbidden, and which permitted? : How do you know that the minority don't like this? If people disagree with you it doesn't mean that they are... Morally wrong, TROLLS, or the other many words you use to describe people. This FREE work thing. I'm not privy to conversations that Rob has had with Sky but I'd bet more than 3bbs that at no stage did they say  "Hey Rob we'd like you to do some graphs and post them everyday on the forum and attempt to get people to pay for even more info that may or may not be useful"
Posted by Jac35

jac,

i chose to do this.  i have also carried out people's requests and also changed things to accommodate things like opting out for just one example.  i have chosen to do this.  in addition, even when people have been insulting or antagonistic and have demanded this or that, i have chosen to treat them just the same and have carried out their request.  that's a principle that i choose to uphold and that doesn't change just because someone is offensive or is detested.

some have made assumptions to thereafter form an attack.  some have little knowledge yet complain.  these people are in number a handful.  

now, because of notes like yours, i choose not to post results, nor best player on the forum.  i have done so because it has been fun.  it is intended to be interesting to forum readers.  i do not need to do it, i choose to.  but there is a limit to the abuse that should be tolerated.

the issue for some is whether there should be a link on a thread.  the rules are clear, i comply with those rules, unless tikay thinks otherwise.  an issue for those other who complain, is opting out.  that has been done.  i spent two days to achieve this for those who asked for it.

no matter, i choose not to post these things on the forum.  this takes any decision away from tikay.  it is all superfluous.




 

Jac35

In Response to Re: What database apps on Sky are forbidden, and which permitted?:

In Response to Re: What database apps on Sky are forbidden, and which permitted? : jac, i chose to do this.  i have also carried out people's requests and also changed things to accommodate things like opting out for just one example.  i have chosen to do this.  in addition, even when people have been insulting or antagonistic and have demanded this or that, i have chosen to treat them just the same and have carried out their request.  that's a principle that i choose to uphold and that doesn't change just because someone is offensive or is detested. some have made assumptions to thereafter form an attack.  some have little knowledge yet complain.  these people are in number a handful.   now, because of notes like yours, i choose not to post results, nor best player on the forum.  i have done so because it has been fun.  it is intended to be interesting to forum readers.  i do not need to do it, i choose to.  but there is a limit to the abuse that should be tolerated. the issue for some is whether there should be a link on a thread.  the rules are clear, i comply with those rules, unless tikay thinks otherwise.  an issue for those other who complain, is opting out.  that has been done.  i spent two days to achieve this for those who asked for it. no matter, i chose not to post these things on the forum.  this takes any decision away from tikay.  it is all superfluous.
Posted by aussie09

Yes, you have chosen to do it. That was one of my points.

I have at no stage been insulting or abusive.

Jac35

I also believe that you over estimate the usefulness of it all. 

I don't like that people who may not be that well informed will believe some of your claims and needlessly pay for a service which is inferior to sharkscope

Phantom66

Overall I would say there is an awful lot of appreciation for the league tables and freely available content on Aussie's site.

It was the recent addition of a paywall that stirred the debate on the forum.

I think there is a valid debate to be had about 

1. Mining player data and selling it on to others.

2. Promoting a site via the forum that does the above.

Being a user of the site shouldn't blind you to the issues being raised on this thread which seem perfectly reasonable to me.

I wonder how many aussiescope advocats and users have actually used the "donate" option to show their appreciation of the work he puts in?

I dont use aussiescope it so I dont feel guilty about not funding it. I dont play enough MTTs for anyone to gain any useful intel on me from aussiescope. Even if I did I wouldn't bother asking to be blocked. I don't block sharkscope and that certainly isn't because I have anything to show off about.

Personally I am ok with the fact that the paywall is for one part of the site only, Aussie doesn't seek to make money via advertising, and I am pleased to see an opt-out is now possible.

I do think they are fair questions to be asked and I don't think people should be attacked for raising them. I appreciate that Tikay is allowing the debate to be aired.

I do feel uncomfortable at some of the posts on here which come across as personal and not based on the issues.

Perhaps Skypoker should survey its user base and not just the forum community to get a true reflection of what it's users think about data mining sites in general. You may find that many players are not even aware of the "scope" sites or that if they play on other sites they are likely to be facing players using HUDs.

aussie09

In Response to Re: What database apps on Sky are forbidden, and which permitted?:

I also believe that you over estimate the usefulness of it all.  I don't like that people who may not be that well informed will believe some of your claims and needlessly pay for a service which is inferior to sharkscope
Posted by Jac35

ah, i see.

FCHD

In Response to Re: What database apps on Sky are forbidden, and which permitted?:

In Response to Re: What database apps on Sky are forbidden, and which permitted? : i have done that for you FCHD.  you are blocked.  
Posted by aussie09

Thank you aussie09.

MISTY4ME

In Response to Re: What database apps on Sky are forbidden, and which permitted?:

Has anyone rang a horse racing tipping line? Form in figures,OFTEN equals didley! 
Posted by chilling

I haven't personally, but I know my Dad has in the past. He didn't rate it as info in Racing Post is just as good as most of them. There are some that are owners/or connected to owners that are good I've heard but are expensive. I think you get just as much info from listening carefully to the trainers on ATR and RUK. Good Luck Chill, I'm sure I'll be seeing you shortly

As always, interpretation of facts and figures is what it's all about

CHILLIE

Poker used to be about fun and enjoyment and trying to make a few pennies along the way, it seems now that a game that is so simplistic is being over complicated with all these diff apps to try and find out about other players.What happened to take your seat shuffle up and deal.I think the only players that are really interested in aussies site is the pro players, the reg player like me aint that interested,but at the same time aussie must of put a lot of time into it so fair play to him for that wether players like it or not.

gerardirl

Im not sure why some people cannot understand why there is problems with the site. Maybe Im reading something different but those raising their issues have spelled them out quite clearly to me?

Also the handful of people that are referred to as having a problem with the site to me seem to outway the handful that are in favour of it, however I havent counted the numbersand we are a very small sample of all players.

To me it should be like sharkscope, give an opt in or opt out option. Personally I would be happy that Aussie was more transparent and open about the fact it is a business with some free elements, but I'm not bothered too much by that. I guess what I was having a go at early was in my view the lack of respect and sincerity in his replies, Im aware this is subjective but I think it is pretty clear he was giving sarcastic replies at those that had a problem with the site. 

I think the site should stay, I think he should be allowed to keep advertising the site, players should have an easy opt out button, no emails or anything needed. I acknowledge his efforts and his innovation and do wish him success with the site.

Ger 

TeddyBloat

In Response to Re: What database apps on Sky are forbidden, and which permitted?:

In Response to Re: What database apps on Sky are forbidden, and which permitted? : I agree. I think there are two types of players.Those who enjoy a game, and those who do it for a living.Two totally different camps. Did something change when multi-tabling became the obsession? 
Posted by chilling

I don't play for a living.

I multi table

I spend hours thinkjng about the game

I spend hours using software resources to improve

I luuuuurrrve poker, and it complexity.


-----

Plenty of hobbyist golfers pay for hi-spec clubs, use coaches to improve their technique spend hours reading about how to play bunkers / rough. Why can't golf just be about whacking a ball around?

Thousands of people give up their spare weekend to play amatuer football. They spend a fortune on boots, have coaches to pick teams, train in the week and have organised leagues. What happened to jumpers for goal posts?


-------


Poker is a simple game for those that want it to be. It also has rich complexity that rewards the inquisitive mind. That rabbit hole goes as deep as you want it to go. There will always be people who enjoy, yes enjoy, taking this wonderful game seriously

gerardirl

Chilling, sharkscope dont email everyone they just have a drop down option so I dont think its necessary to email everyone when you dont have their email addresses. If this drop down option is there already great, I havent checked the site nor do I intend to.

Ger

TeddyBloat

Yeah.

Brunson never looked for an edge. Nothing shady there.

Years before the internet was even a thing there where weighty tombs on poker theory and mathematics.

Aussie site seems fun. Looking at the cards / scope graphs of big winners is fun. It attracts people to games.

VespaPX

Did you know that an anagram of database is Abate Ads

TwoAnchors

I don't really have anything to add to the debate that hasn't already been said but I'd definitely like to opt out please and I don't want to fill in a form giving my email address etc to do so.

Thanks

suzy666

In Response to Re: What database apps on Sky are forbidden, and which permitted?:

What happened to jumpers for goal posts?

Well the poker analogy has to be a diminishing poker economy?

poker books, training sites, scopes, HUDs, software, coaching. Some of these things sky disfavours.

All those things that we've all taken part in, which in effect takes cash out of the poker pyramid have slowly caused a levelling of the playing field and the slow reduction of the poker economy. Human nature, grab a quick buck and to hell with the consequences.

 It attracts people to games.

based upon what? your opinion.
TimmyRaRa's blog attracts people to SNGs, but it doesnt post his findings on all the poorer players hes presumably encountered. Nor does it provide stats.

@TK. I think my last comment is totally just. Sky have sat back and allowed this to happen. You have no control over aussie site as he himself has already hinted.

If/As his site becomes more successful, sky players will be gifting money to a third party site and not into skys economy.
GG everyone.

Macacgirl1

I think we should all have a nice big group hug and a cup of tea. With a choccie biscuit.

Hey Aussie..

Please just consider that people hate junk mail.

Let me continue.

People hate their information being passed onto/collated by a third party without their consent.

Whether it's legal or not, whether it's considered somewhat unsavoury or not, it doesn't matter. People don't like it.  It's especially disliked when a third person financially gains or attempts to gain from the said collating of that information.

Please consider starting a thread with a simple 'yes' response if people wish to be opted out of your 'service'.

It's purely my opinion, but it's easy to opt out of Sharkscope if anyone so wishes, it should be easier to opt out of your set up as it's harder to find/be aware of.

NoseyBonk

I'm miffed because my results are so bad I'll have to manually opt-in.

MattBates

There seems to be an assumption that loads of people will be purchasing an Aussiescope subscription and gaining vast amounts of info about players from it. I very much doubt this will be the case. 

In a thread this you will get the vocal ones who are massively against it or massively in favour. The main one in favour will be Rob. The silent majority will be fairly neutral to it so suggesting views in this thread give an indication of an overall view is somewhat misleading. I think its a good bit of fun however at no point have I thought I dont know this player let me check on Aussiescope about them. 

I assume sky are in the silent majority camp and are indifferent to it. 

Personally, I really cant see what the big fuss about it is. Maybe I have found it harder to take the arguments all that seriously when his infomation is likened to a HUD and there are suggestions he will be taking vast amounts of money out of the poker economy etc so have missed the big issue. 

There is now an opt out function so people can do that so surely it is time to move on as just like me life is too short! 

aussie09

In Response to Re: What database apps on Sky are forbidden, and which permitted?:

I think we should all have a nice big group hug and a cup of tea. With a choccie biscuit. Hey Aussie.. Please just consider that people hate junk mail. Let me continue. People hate their information being passed onto/collated by a third party without their consent. Whether it's legal or not, whether it's considered somewhat unsavoury or not, it doesn't matter. People don't like it.  It's especially disliked when a third person financially gains or attempts to gain from the said collating of that information. Please consider starting a thread with a simple 'yes' response if people wish to be opted out of your 'service'. It's purely my opinion, but it's easy to opt out of Sharkscope if anyone so wishes, it should be easier to opt out of your set up as it's harder to find/be aware of.
Posted by Macacgirl1

hi macacgirl1

rest assured that i have blocked all those who have asked.  i will continue to do so. 

if you, or anyone else, would like your name added to the blocked list just say so.  if you would like to be blocked anonymously you can PM me. 

i am told that it provides a interesting and valued service to a number of players here.  incidentally, the overwhelming majority of the site is open for all to see and continues to be free. 

rob

VespaPX

In Response to Re: What database apps on Sky are forbidden, and which permitted?:

I think we should all have a nice big group hug and a cup of tea. With a choccie biscuit. Hey Aussie.. Please just consider that people hate junk mail. Let me continue. People hate their information being passed onto/collated by a third party without their consent. Whether it's legal or not, whether it's considered somewhat unsavoury or not, it doesn't matter. People don't like it.  It's especially disliked when a third person financially gains or attempts to gain from the said collating of that information. Please consider starting a thread with a simple 'yes' response if people wish to be opted out of your 'service'. It's purely my opinion, but it's easy to opt out of Sharkscope if anyone so wishes, it should be easier to opt out of your set up as it's harder to find/be aware of.
Posted by Macacgirl1

Shouldn't you be on the beach sipping cocktails and munching on twiglets?

gerardirl

Aussie has blocked his stats from sharkscope, just an interesting/uninteresting observation.

Ger gg all

CxE1

Why do you have to opt out of something you never opted into. Surely if its the other way round then there is no dispute.

Point of amusement, I complained to sky re all ins that never were.When i requested some info/data about the all ins they wanted to charge me for it. 

TeddyBloat

Suzy,

Why do you think Timmy blog might attract people to dym's.

One major reason is because he is posting winning month after winning month.

If you are a reg crushing a format you should advertise the fact.

The best husng regs have long hidden their stats on sharkscope - as they don't want to attract regs from other formats.  I've seem at least 4 posts on different forums asking why should I bother to learn husngs if no-one is making serious money in them. Having big winners visible in ga,es attracts players to formats and to sites. Sky charges high rake, some will think it unbeatable. Being able to see someone like Timmy smashing the games will only be a positive thing.

Robs site is mega fun. I've looked through a lot of his cards and leaderboards.

They aren't going to be an aid to beating people at an enhanced rate.

888 are an example of a site that appreciated the worth of sharkscope and they recently unblocked their whole site, as did the winning poker network. I imagine sky approve of a site that promotes their poker room and advertises the big winners in a cool and innovative way.
 

stuarty117

Sharkscope can also be bad for poker recs

They find out how much they are down and stop playing.

jdsallstar

To throw my opinion in the ring. I like using the aussies site for my own results but don't use it for others because like sharkscope it doesn't really aid decision making. I like the site because I like stats but would not pay for it although I do appreciate it probably took aussie a lot of time, skill and effort to put the site together.

Having said all that an opt out button is a must and once the site charges a fee I don't think it's morally right for links to be allowed on the forum. I believe both of these things have been done so from my point it's all good.

As for the wider debate on sharkscope and aussie scope being good for the game in general. I use them both regularly so would be a little hypocritical to say they they are bad because then I'd be a contributor to this wrong.

I can see why people are against it though because essentially these sites sell our information without prior consent. Personally I'm happy for him to sell my information as long as I get some use of the site for free to look up my own stats. That seems like a fair trade off for me.

churchy18

In Response to Re: What database apps on Sky are forbidden, and which permitted?:

Suzy, Why do you think Timmy blog might attract people to dym's. One major reason is because he is posting winning month after winning month. If you are a reg crushing a format you should advertise the fact. The best husng regs have long hidden their stats on sharkscope - as they don't want to attract regs from other formats.  I've seem at least 4 posts on different forums asking why should I bother to learn husngs if no-one is making serious money in them. Having big winners visible in ga,es attracts players to formats and to sites. Sky charges high rake, some will think it unbeatable. Being able to see someone like Timmy smashing the games will only be a positive thing. Robs site is mega fun. I've looked through a lot of his cards and leaderboards. They aren't going to be an aid to beating people at an enhanced rate. 888 are an example of a site that appreciated the worth of sharkscope and they recently unblocked their whole site, as did the winning poker network. I imagine sky approve of a site that promotes their poker room and advertises the big winners in a cool and innovative way.  
Posted by TeddyBloat

For someone who has said they dont play on here you seem to have plenty to say about it.


Agree with jd that aussie has put alot of his time and effort into his site and i also understand peoples worries about his site i.e has the whale/cant remember the other list really been removed?

But on other hand don't really understand those that use sharkscope complaining as he is doing the same thing.

On shark u have too opt out also(which rob has provided)  i don't like sharkscope personally thats why i opted out as soon as i learned about it. you should have to opt in there as well imo as i feel it is a bit intrusive by showing peoples results even when they don't even know the site exists.

I only check now and again to see how much i am down but never really look at other people as find it is unfair as mine is hidden.

Think some people have only got annoyed since the paywall was introduced even although before that they where quite happy to have hero cards made go figure.

Think as someone else has said maybe rob could allow someone from sky admin access (but is sky really going to pay an employee to continually look through his site) to ease peoples fears.

Also think some people have forgotten how much rob has done for the forum as well.

And after all who is to say others have not done similarly but only given the info to they're friends?

TeddyBloat

hey, i remain an active member of the sky commuinity.

the only reason i dont play here is because i am staked to play on another site. this was my first site and i still take an interest in it, and like to help out people on the forum where i can; i got a tonne of help when i first joined and its nice to be able to pay it forward.

when / if my staking deal ends i'll no doubt be playing some games here again.

i'd like to think i make my points in a reasoned manner, and if i didnt think i could add value to the debate i wouldnt bother, innit