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Can an old dog learn new tricks?

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  • edited March 2014
    Tikay,
    loving your insights as always
    and your heater
    and your dedication - 3 shows in a row - and to maintain the quality of the performance - vwp
    do look up titanium dioxide coated concrete - if it could be made cost effective wouldn't that be great

    just one little blemish on your scorecard imho
    i thought your comments about (Sir) Clive's poker skill was unnecessary to the otherwise amusing anecdote.
    although some of his play may be unconventional he is still a very difficult person to play against - he has knocked me out of more tournies that I have him (okay maybe that says more about me than him but meh) and just last week he took down a local tournament. there are other analysts that have a tendency to be forthright with their views, whereas always had you in the fair but a little more diplomatic camp, and that's the way i like it.

  • edited March 2014
    In Response to Re: Can an old dog learn new tricks?:
    In Response to Re: Can an old dog learn new tricks? : That is a great point, Mick.   Logically, trying to keep the win-rate north of 50% ought to be the only target, but I seem to be equally fixated by the Reward Points thing. The thing is, all things being equal, I can just about make 3,000 Reward Points on a regular month, & that is worth £45 to me. Based on the starting 'roll of £200, £45 is a lot of money.   In truth, of course, it is only £15 extra really, compared to, say, 2,950 Reward Points.   Bit silly really, but having targets really helps me. Carrot & donkey, I suppose.    
    Posted by Tikay10
    Don't forget your Bronze Leaderboard money too.
  • edited March 2014
    Hi Tikay
    Thanks for the advice, I have decided to leave mtt's and nlh alone for a while and play dym plo8 ( and plo if we can get more people to play them)  I am trying to put it into my game. I will be playing 3.30 games only as I cannot lose too much if it all goes wrong.
    Played nine tonight won four lost five. losing concentration cost me a couple and I probably won one that I shouldn't have.
    I think I played better but losing more than we win is not good so will try again tomorrow. the main thing was that I had fun for three hours and at one stage was in tears of laughter at macacgirls'  "twiglet" remark. that was fantastic as was the response by the rest of the table bar the one we all know. Any tips about the way I played , from you, or anyone else on the tables I played would be welcome although I understand if people want to "milk me " as much as they can.
    One point I wanted to ask was I tried not to play many hands in the early levels and even threw away AAK4 (A4suited.) Should I look to play the occasional hand or keep folding ? the only reason I ask is that I always seemed to be behind everyone else in chips and playing catch up when the blinds were getting bigger.
    Thanks
    Nick
  • edited March 2014
    Hi Nic I know I differ from Tikay in the view to playing hands early. I personally dont think its right to take one approach I think you adapt this approach to who is at the table and who is in the hand with you. There are times I will very much play hands early on and broaden my range of hands also. Yes the abc of dym will tell you play tight early and then aggressive late on but I dont entirely agree with that. If there chips to be won early I say go for it as it sets you in position late on instead of having to take risks late on. In general the abc approach is important but it is not the right approach in all cases imo.

    Ger
  • edited March 2014
    In Response to Re: Can an old dog learn new tricks?:
    Hi Tikay Thanks for the advice, I have decided to leave mtt's and nlh alone for a while and play dym plo8 ( and plo if we can get more people to play them)  I am trying to put it into my game. I will be playing 3.30 games only as I cannot lose too much if it all goes wrong. Played nine tonight won four lost five. losing concentration cost me a couple and I probably won one that I shouldn't have. I think I played better but losing more than we win is not good so will try again tomorrow. the main thing was that I had fun for three hours and at one stage was in tears of laughter at macacgirls'  "twiglet" remark. that was fantastic as was the response by the rest of the table bar the one we all know. Any tips about the way I played , from you, or anyone else on the tables I played would be welcome although I understand if people want to "milk me " as much as they can. One point I wanted to ask was I tried not to play many hands in the early levels and even threw away AAK4 (A4suited.) Should I look to play the occasional hand or keep folding ? the only reason I ask is that I always seemed to be behind everyone else in chips and playing catch up when the blinds were getting bigger. Thanks Nick
    Posted by pompeynic
    hi nic i agree with ger here the way i look at it early is u can lose 200-700 chips knowuing there is plenty of time too win them back and if you build a stack early your more set for the later levels.

    the way these games play early on u have people going all in with any 4 cards so why not limp in and have a look at a few flops early on. just be careful what you play always have a 2 way hand  you wont go far wrong. just dont go crazy.

    you will soon start learning the way people play and the hands they play and how they play after a few games against them.

     thats the only thing on here it is pretty much always the same player pool so quite easy too build up a bit of knowledge on your opponents then its just a case of using it too your advantage or trying too anyway!

    maybe see you on the tables tonight...good luck...Churchy
  • edited March 2014
    Hi Nick, pleasure sitting at tables last night with you.
    It's almost impossible to say if your AAK4 hand should have been folded or not.  If anyone had acted before me and jumped into the pot, I am almost always folding. However, I'm auto folding, without a seconds thought, if it's one of the 'Limp every hand, call every pot raise' Brigade, who had acted.  Likewise, if you pot a hand like that with one or two of the Brigade to act after you, then you will get one or two callers. They will call with any4.com, so, unless you hit the flop big time, against two of the Brigade, it's almost impossible to know where you stand.  Knowing the regulars helps, that just takes time.
    That's just my opinion of course, I honestly don't know if that's how most would play the hand early doors.
    I do however agree with both Ger and Churchy, mixing it up and not being predictable means an awful lot. Especially in the later levels. Hopefully, others have player notes on me ranging from complete nutter, through to tighter than a clams bum. 
    Good luck and stick at it please, it's an incredible game.

    Edited to add---
    Currently playing a £3 DYM.
    Level 5, one limper, I'm holding AAK2 so pot raise it. Everyone called. Five way pot. One quick glance at flop. I haven't hit anything massive. Check it. All remaining players get involved, I fold. Player who scooped the lot had called with pre with 5899.
  • edited March 2014
    In Response to Re: Can an old dog learn new tricks?:
    Hi Nick, pleasure sitting at tables last night with you. It's almost impossible to say if your AAK4 hand should have been folded or not.  If anyone had acted before me and jumped into the pot, I am almost always folding. However, I'm auto folding, without a seconds thought, if it's one of the 'Limp every hand, call every pot raise' Brigade, who had acted.  Likewise, if you pot a hand like that with one or two of the Brigade to act after you, then you will get one or two callers. They will call with any4.com, so, unless you hit the flop big time, against two of the Brigade, it's almost impossible to know where you stand.  Knowing the regulars helps, that just takes time. That's just my opinion of course, I honestly don't know if that's how most would play the hand early doors. I do however agree with both Ger and Churchy, mixing it up and not being predictable means an awful lot. Especially in the later levels. Hopefully, others have player notes on me ranging from complete nutter, through to tighter than a clams bum.  Good luck and stick at it please, it's an incredible game. Edited to add--- Currently playing a £3 DYM. Level 5, one limper, I'm holding AAK2 so pot raise it. Everyone called. Five way pot. One quick glance at flop. I haven't hit anything massive. Check it. All remaining players get involved, I fold. Player who scooped the lot had called with pre with 5899.
    Posted by Macacgirl1
    All those and more :-)
  • edited March 2014
    Hi guys
    Thanks for all the advice I will take on board and perhaps be a little more adventurous. I will be on the 3.30 tables again tonight hoping to have a winning evening and also a fun evening PLO/PlO8 are by far the friendliest tables add in the odd nutter and it becomes great fun as well!!!!
    Nick
  • edited March 2014
    In Response to Re: Can an old dog learn new tricks?:
    Hi guys Thanks for all the advice I will take on board and perhaps be a little more adventurous. I will be on the 3.30 tables again tonight hoping to have a winning evening and also a fun evening PLO/PlO8 are by far the friendliest tables add in the odd nutter and it becomes great fun as well!!!! Nick
    Posted by pompeynic
    No way to talk about TK on his own thread !

    PS dont mention Frey Bentos !
  • edited March 2014
    Well I played eleven 3.30 games tonight won six lost five, not great but good fun again. won a game which was pure luck lost one due to having poker blinkers on. for some reason only saw my hand and thought it was good, also lost one after not seeing tournie had started and then panic pushed. Bad errors I will need to cut out, anyway see everyone on the plo8 tables wednesday.
  • edited March 2014
    Oh dear i am rubbish, going to bed to weep at just how bad i play this game.
  • edited March 2014
    In Response to Re: Can an old dog learn new tricks?:
    Oh dear i am rubbish, going to bed to weep at just how bad i play this game.
    Posted by pompeynic
    Post a couple of hands in the Clinic
    I'm sure we can help you.
    Gl
  • edited March 2014

    Whoops, not been able to update this for a week, I've had some things to sort, you know, stuff.

    I've played every night though, except when working, & I've kept all the numbers, so I'll get started with the daily numbers, then do my blathery bit afterwards.
     
    One minor problem is that I've started to play a bit of PLO8 cash some nights, so this muddies the numbers slightly.

    The "Bankroll" figure I quote every day is my exact closing balance after the last session. That will continue to be the case, so overall, the numbers will remain accurate. Sort of.    
     
  • edited March 2014

    Monday 10th March

    Played 41

    Won 20

    Lost 21

    Split....

    £3.30 - Played 31, Won 15, Lost 16

    £5.50 - Played 8, won 4 lost 4

    £11.00 - Played 2, won 1, Lost 1

    PROFIT/LOSS on Day
    £21.00

    PROFIT/LOSS per game £0.51


    REWARD POINTS = 153


    BANKROLL at close of Play = £1,303.40

    REWARD POINTS at close of play = 760 (= £7.60)
  • edited March 2014

    March to date........

    Played 175

    Won 109

    Lost 66

    Win-rate, January, 62.28%

    PROFIT/LOSS in March,
    £164.84

    Profit
    /Loss per game February =
    £0.94
  • edited March 2014

    Tuesday 11th March

    Played 22

    Won 12

    Lost 10

    Split....

    £3.30 - Played 14, Won 7, Lost 7

    £5.50 - Played 5, won 3 lost 2

    £11.00 - Played 3, won 2, Lost 1

    PROFIT/LOSS on Day
    £5.30

    PROFIT/LOSS per game £0.25


    REWARD POINTS = 97


    BANKROLL at close of Play = £1,308.70

    REWARD POINTS at close of play = 857 (= £8.57)
  • edited March 2014

    March to date........

    Played 197

    Won 121

    Lost 76

    Win-rate, January, 61.41%

    PROFIT/LOSS in March,
    £170.14

    Profit
    /Loss per game February =
    £0.86
  • edited March 2014

    Wednesday 12th March

    Played 28

    Won 12

    Lost 16

    Split....

    £3.30 - Played 17, Won 6, Lost 11

    £5.50 - Played 8, won 4 lost 4

    £11.00 - Played 3, won 2, Lost 1

    PROFIT/LOSS on Day
    £17.10

    PROFIT/LOSS per game £0.61


    REWARD POINTS = 121


    BANKROLL at close of Play = £1,291.60

    REWARD POINTS at close of play = 978 (= £9.78)
  • edited March 2014

    March to date........

    Played 225

    Won 133

    Lost 92

    Win-rate, January, 59.11%

    PROFIT/LOSS in March,
    £153.04

    Profit
    /Loss per game February =
    £0.68
  • edited March 2014

    Thursday 13th March

    Played 30

    Won 17

    Lost 13

    Split....

    £3.30 - Played 16, Won 9, Lost 7

    £5.50 - Played 10, won 6 lost 4

    £11.00 - Played 4, won 2, Lost 2

    PROFIT/LOSS on Day
    £9.90 (of which £1.70 came from CASH GAMES)

    PROFIT/LOSS per game £0.63


    REWARD POINTS = 160


    BANKROLL at close of Play = £1,301.50

    REWARD POINTS at close of play = 1,134 (= £11.34)
  • edited March 2014

    March to date........

    Played 255

    Won 150

    Lost 105

    Win-rate, January, 58.80%

    PROFIT/LOSS in March,
    £162.94

    Profit
    /Loss per game February =
    £0.64
  • edited March 2014

    Friday 14th March

    Played 32

    Won 22

    Lost 10

    Split....

    £3.30 - Played 9, Won 6, Lost 3

    £5.50 - Played 11, won 10 lost 1

    £11.00 - Played 12, won 6, Lost 6

    PROFIT/LOSS on Day
    £36.50 

    PROFIT/LOSS per game £1.14


    REWARD POINTS = 202


    BANKROLL at close of Play = £1,338.50

    REWARD POINTS at close of play = 1,339 (= £13.39)
  • edited March 2014

    March to date........

    Played 287

    Won 172

    Lost 115

    Win-rate, January, 59.93%

    PROFIT/LOSS in March,
    £193.44

    Profit
    /Loss per game February =
    £0.67
  • edited March 2014

    Saturday 15th March

    Played 28

    Won 14

    Lost 14

    Split....

    £3.30 - Played 14, Won 7, Lost 7

    £5.50 - Played 11, won 6 lost 5

    £11.00 - Played 3, won 1, Lost 2

    PROFIT/LOSS on Day
    £49.01

    PROFIT/LOSS per game £1.75


    REWARD POINTS = 148


    BANKROLL at close of Play = £1,288.99

    REWARD POINTS at close of play = 1,487 (= £14.87)
  • edited March 2014

    March to date........

    Played 315

    Won 186

    Lost 129

    Win-rate, January, 59.05%

    PROFIT/LOSS in March,
    £144.43

    Profit
    /Loss per game February =
    £0.46
  • edited March 2014

    Sunday 16th March

    Played 35

    Won 19

    Lost 16

    Split....

    £3.30 - Played 22, Won 12, Lost 10

    £5.50 - Played 8, won 5 lost 3

    £11.00 - Played 5, won 2, Lost 3

    PROFIT/LOSS on Day
    £9.60

    PROFIT/LOSS per game £0.27


    REWARD POINTS = 157


    BANKROLL at close of Play = £1,279.39

    REWARD POINTS at close of play = 1,643 (= £16.43)
  • edited March 2014

    March to date........

    Played 350

    Won 205

    Lost 145

    Win-rate, January, 58.57%

    PROFIT/LOSS in March,
    £134.83

    Profit
    /Loss per game February =
    £0.39
  • edited March 2014
    lol, I admire your pedantism... most people would have just put up some summary numbers. Not TK, no, he must show numbers from each and every day, even if it takes him half a day to type it all in :D

    anyway, I'm interrupting this number fest with some words. about numbers.


    in the DYMs I play with you, you ony ever seem to bet pot, or not at all... Is there a reason behind it? 




  • edited March 2014
    In Response to Re: Can an old dog learn new tricks?:
    lol, I admire your pedantism... most people would have just put up some summary numbers. Not TK, no, he must show numbers from each and every day, even if it takes him half a day to type it all in :D anyway, I'm interrupting this number fest with some words. about numbers. in the DYMs I play with you, you ony ever seem to bet pot, or not at all... Is there a reason behind it? 
    Posted by chicknMelt
    That's half my problem, I have to do it properly, or not at all, so yeah, all the numbers need to be Posted.

    Amaing what a difference daily figures gives me, too, it improves my discipline no end. I've not updated for a week, & whilst I'm still £140 or whatever ahead in March, I've slipped back a good few quid this week, & had not realised. Some of that - £20 maybe - was playing cash, to be fair. I suck at cash. As you know......

    I mostly bet "pot", yes. Sevewal reasons really.

    1) I'm generally 6 or 7 tabling, so I don't have time to mess about typing in odd amounts. It makes very little difference at this level, to be honest.
     
    2) These play so shallow, especially 4 handed in Level 7 up, that it just makes sense to pot it. If I were playing a well-structured, long tourney, then no, I would generally (not always) bet less. 

    3) I'm very much swimming against the tide with this "you MUST only bet 2.2x" nonsense.I don't buy that in shallow structures & fast clocks.
     
    4) In PLO8, we are NEVER far ahead, 60-40 if we are lucky. (TWICE, as there may be 2 pots). So I'm quite happy, at the later blind levels, to take pots pre-flop, uncontested. I never lose if they all fold pre-flop. Ever. OK, if we were playing 50 Bigs deep, that's different. We are not. I don't want to price folks in, even if I have a monsta-wonsta. Just fold lads, you know it makes sense. ;)

    MOTHER called me once last week when I potted it. Disrepectful, that. Bang out of order. As it happens, I had misclicked, & had total spanners. First time I'd ever done that. No, honest, it was.      
     
  • edited March 2014
    In Response to Re: Can an old dog learn new tricks?:
    In Response to Re: Can an old dog learn new tricks? : That's half my problem, I have to do it properly, or not at all, so yeah, all the numbers need to be Posted. Amaing what a difference daily figures gives me, too, it improves my discipline no end. I've not updated for a week, & whilst I'm still £140 or whatever ahead in March, I've slipped back a good few quid this week, & had not realised. Some of that - £20 maybe - was playing cash, to be fair. I suck at cash. As you know...... I mostly bet "pot", yes. Sevewal reasons really. 1) I'm generally 6 or 7 tabling, so I don't have time to mess about typing in odd amounts. It makes very little difference at this level, to be honest.   2) These play so shallow, especially 4 handed in Level 7 up, that it just makes sense to pot it. If I were playing a well-structured, long tourney, then no, I would generally (not always) bet less.  3) I'm very much swimming against the tide with this "you MUST only bet 2.2x" nonsense.I don't buy that in shallow structures & fast clocks.   4) In PLO8, we are NEVER far ahead, 60-40 if we are lucky. (TWICE, as there may be 2 pots). So I'm quite happy, at the later blind levels, to take pots pre-flop, uncontested. I never lose if they all fold pre-flop. Ever. OK, if we were playing 50 Bigs deep, that's different. We are not. I don't want to price folks in, even if I have a monsta-wonsta. Just fold lads, you know it makes sense. ;) MOTHER called me once last week when I potted it. Disrepectful, that. Bang out of order. As it happens, I had misclicked, & had total spanners. First time I'd ever done that. No, honest, it was.        
    Posted by Tikay10

    1) in general, I agree

    2) I feel that there are occasions where your opponent simply wont call unless they "have it" even if you bet less. for example, you isolate alimper pre, and the flop is QTT rainbow... or what about when you want to get thin value. they are examples when I might bet less than pot.

    3)you might well be right, in PLO8 DYMs at least. my view is - how often do you see people fold to min raises when the blinds are big? is it alot less than when you 3.5x it? i think its pretty similar. people generally go over the top or fold?

    4)fair point. not post flop though? you could have the nut high and low. would you still bet pot??


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