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New PLO8 BH MTT's (Could the current set-up be built upon?)

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  • Tikay10Tikay10
    edited January 2017

    I would happily do the same for PLO, Alan, but at present, there is little PLO liquidity, perhaps because there is (relatively) so much at PLO8.

    The players, amongst ourselves, built the PLO8 liquidity, we never asked Sky Poker for help, we just went & did it. There is no reason why a like minded bunch could not do the same for PLO.
     
    I'm equally competent  - or incompetent - at PLO as PLO8, but I simply can't play the 2 alongside each other simultaneously. If I could, I would, but everything about the 2 games is so different, primarily hand ranges, & when to apply pressure. Pressure is very easy in O8 in certain spots, but rather more complex in PLO. 

    I keep meaning to have a PLO "month", but I like to keep 5 or 6 games going at a time, & right now, that's not possible at PLO. 


    I suppose one possibility is to switch the £5 & £10 O8 BH games to PLO one or 2 nights a week, though that might upset the O8 regulars. Personally, I'd be slightly more likely to play a £5 &/or £10 PLO than PLO8, though it's a close run thing. 

    Right now, I'm busy re-learning NLH, too. An embarrassment of enjoyable games, to be honest. If only there were more poker hours in the day.   
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  • markycashmarkycash
    edited January 2017
    In Response to Re: Would it be possible to have a nightly Omaha 8 B/H? (2 added to schedule for 7:15pm & 9:15pm tonight £200 & £300 GTD):
    It is generally great to see all the extra noise made on here for everything PLO8. Even I played one of these BH's. I hope your new League is a success too. HOWEVER ....it would, IMHO. been advantageous for the game of PLO to been given a bit of a push here too. This format only gets small numbers on this site ATM (apart from cash tables). If you are looking for PLO action in MTT or DYM format, you generally have to look at other sites for it. Don't shoot me down though guys, just making an observation. Perhaps, depending how this League goes, PLO could maybe considered in the future and combine both formats into a League/Comp?
    Posted by MAXALLY

    Thanks Max.

    Couple of great points IMO. From my personal experience oh8 MTT's get a bit more traffic than plo. Having said that, I don't think there is a massive difference. Sky also has as you say, a reasonable amount of cash game action and obviously therefore a player base. Some plo BH's may well do okay too.

    I personally disagree about combining the leaderboards though as some people play plo and don't like plo8 and vice versa. 

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  • markycashmarkycash
    edited January 2017
    Okay I better go study for a couple of hours... Apologies if my grammar is ever worse than usual, I hate typing via my mobile...

    Look forward to reading people's thoughts on this.
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  • Tikay10Tikay10
    edited January 2017
    In Response to Re: Would it be possible to have a nightly Omaha 8 B/H? (2 added to schedule for 7:15pm & 9:15pm tonight £200 & £300 GTD):
    Okay I better go study for a couple of hours... Apologies if my grammar is ever worse than usual, I hate typing via my mobile... Look forward to reading people's thoughts on this.
    Posted by markycash
    Never noticed the difference, tbh, but I make allowances for Scots who struggle with proper English.  
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  • MAXALLYMAXALLY
    edited January 2017
    In Response to Re: Would it be possible to have a nightly Omaha 8 B/H? (2 added to schedule for 7:15pm & 9:15pm tonight £200 & £300 GTD):
    I would happily do the same for PLO, Alan, but at present, there is little PLO liquidity, perhaps because there is (relatively) so much at PLO8. The players, amongst ourselves, built the PLO8 liquidity, we never asked Sky Poker for help, we just went & did it. There is no reason why a like minded bunch could not do the same for PLO.   I'm equally competent  - or incompetent - at PLO as PLO8, but I simply can't play the 2 alongside each other simultaneously. If I could, I would, but everything about the 2 games is so different, primarily hand ranges, & when to apply pressure. Pressure is very easy in O8 in certain spots, but rather more complex in PLO.  I keep meaning to have a PLO "month", but I like to keep 5 or 6 games going at a time, & right now, that's not possible at PLO.  I suppose one possibility is to switch the £5 & £10 O8 BH games to PLO one or 2 nights a week, though that might upset the O8 regulars. Personally, I'd be slightly more likely to play a £5 &/or £10 PLO than PLO8, though it's a close run thing.  Right now, I'm busy re-learning NLH, too. An embarrassment of enjoyable games, to be honest. If only there were more poker hours in the day.   
    Posted by Tikay10

    Hold the back page....I agree. I Also take Mark's points on board. Thinking about it again, attempting to mix the two formats would not work. I just hope PLO is not forgotten on this site though.

    Carry on gents. Hopefully I will join you occasionally for these manic 'any four cards will do' shove in and hope games ;)
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  • edrichedrich
    edited January 2017
    Morning,
              One league seems best to me, as Tikay indicated that "the prizes won't be much".

              Give one point for last, increasing by one point all the way up to first. This gives more points for performing well in a bigger field. You could put in a slight increase for 1st, 2nd, 3rd or final table as you see fit.
           
               You could then add one point for each bounty if you want the league to be mainly finishing position based, with the bounties as a small boost. Alternatively, if you want the league to be mainly bounty based, you could award ten points for each bounty and use the finishing positions as the slight boost. Or anything inbetween.

               i keep promising myself I will give the four card game a go, but like many, have never got round to it. Maybe this year.

              Just me thinking aloud. Well done for getting this going, and hope whatever you decide to do goes well.

                                      Ed.
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  • markycashmarkycash
    edited January 2017
    In Response to Re: Would it be possible to have a nightly Omaha 8 B/H? (2 added to schedule for 7:15pm & 9:15pm tonight £200 & £300 GTD):
    Morning,           One league seems best to me, as Tikay indicated that "the prizes won't be much".           Give one point for last, increasing by one point all the way up to first. This gives more points for performing well in a bigger field. You could put in a slight increase for 1st, 2nd, 3rd or final table as you see fit.                    You could then add one point for each bounty if you want the league to be mainly finishing position based, with the bounties as a small boost. Alternatively, if you want the league to be mainly bounty based, you could award ten points for each bounty and use the finishing positions as the slight boost. Or anything inbetween.            i keep promising myself I will give the four card game a go, but like many, have never got round to it. Maybe this year.           Just me thinking aloud. Well done for getting this going, and hope whatever you decide to do goes well.                                   Ed.
    Posted by edrich
    Okay back from uni and have given this all some thought. I think I have came up with a few suggestions that takes most of the feedback suggested in the thread into account.

    Regarding Ed's comment about 1 point for last and increasing by 1 point all the way to first, I couldn't agree more. I ran some NLHE leagues on another site for several years and that was the formula I used and nobody ever had a problem with it. It means everyone is getting a few points and it differentiates between someone winning a 33 player tourney as opposed to a 50 players tourney. In that example players would be awarded 33 and 50 points respectively.

    Anyways I have came up with a few options that reflect the feedback offered here. If scouse can let me know if they are logistically feasable or if he or anyone else has any objections. If there are no objections I could open a poll with the different options for leaderboards and we can let the democratic vote stand? Maybe close the poll at midnight tonight and then it is all decided in time for tomorrow and the start of the new month?

    Leaderboard ideas for coming up...
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  • markycashmarkycash
    edited January 2017
    As per the post above, a few ideas for leaderboards which I will put to the poll if nobody has any objections.

    Idea 1: The original idea of recording bounties taken over the month. 1 bounty = 1 point.

    Idea 2: A straight monthly performance leaderboard. Last place = 1 point, 2nd last place = 2 points etc, each place upwards you get an extra point.

    Idea 3: A combination of both. 1 point per bounty + 1 point for last and an extra point for every position upwards you get from last.

    These leaderboards could also be capped (maybe your best 10 results?) or uncapped. This would give 6 options.

    So if scouse thinks this is okay and workable and nobody has any objections I could create a poll very soon and let everyone decide for themselves what we have? As mentioned the poll could be closed at midnight and then that hopefully leaves time for things to be in place for tomorrow?

    Regarding the capped versus uncapped. I am unsure which would be best to be honest. From Sky's perspective and a rake point of view... would it be better to have maybe an extra 20 players playing 10 tourneys over the month or an extra 7 or 8 playing 50?

    Opinions would be very welcome!
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  • Tikay10Tikay10
    edited January 2017

    Just a thought, Mark, if you are short of time to agree everything - & you are - you could delay the start until next Monday, & then run it for either 3 or 4 weeks, or until the last day of February.
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  • Phantom66Phantom66
    edited January 2017
    I think the capped v uncapped debate really centres around whether you can keep recreational players motivated to play for league points if they are only likely to play 10-15 events a month. It's probably too soon with the novelty value of the tourney to make any realistic assessment based on the fields to date. If someone could crunch the no of "unique players" in comparison to field sizes you may have some idea of the mix.

    If the idea is to promote the game to existing PLO8 DYMers/Thu league players and give an option for NLHE bounty hunter players to give PLO8 a try then I would stick with a capped limit.

    If the idea is to attract regular PLO8 players from other sites to switch to sky poker then I would opt for uncapped.

    As a recreational player myself I prefer the former option, although I suspect the later would be more saleable to the suits as it attracts new blood from competitors.

    I won't vote however as I doubt I will be making regular enough appearances in these events so I feel it would be unfair for me to vote in a self serving way on the off chance I may someday contend for a capped league prize. 
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  • chillingchilling
    edited January 2017
    Do you mean a leaderboard for the £11 bh alone, or combo with the £5•50?
    If so, then bonus points for winning both on the same night might be an idea.( If i can dream, Elvis Presley )
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  • markycashmarkycash
    edited January 2017
    In Response to Re: Would it be possible to have a nightly Omaha 8 B/H? (2 added to schedule for 7:15pm & 9:15pm tonight £200 & £300 GTD):
    Just a thought, Mark, if you are short of time to agree everything - & you are - you could delay the start until next Monday, & then run it for either 3 or 4 weeks, or until the last day of February.
    Posted by Tikay10
    Sounds good Tikay!

    We could maybe get a little more feedback here and open a poll tonight and leave it open a little longer.

    Maybe start this months off from Monday 6th February as per your suggestion, with the 1st month ending on the last day of February and subsequent leaderboards could just go by the normal calendar months?

    When it is all agreed I could open a league thread akin to Brian's Thursday league thread and the disucssion and results could shift over to there? If scouse is willing to do the tables I would be happy to commit to posting updates, reminders and anything of the sort.
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  • markycashmarkycash
    edited January 2017
    In Response to Re: Would it be possible to have a nightly Omaha 8 B/H? (2 added to schedule for 7:15pm & 9:15pm tonight £200 & £300 GTD):
    I think the capped v uncapped debate really centres around whether you can keep recreational players motivated to play for league points if they are only likely to play 10-15 events a month. It's probably too soon with the novelty value of the tourney to make any realistic assessment based on the fields to date. If someone could crunch the no of "unique players" in comparison to field sizes you may have some idea of the mix. If the idea is to promote the game to existing PLO8 DYMers/Thu league players and give an option for NLHE bounty hunter players to give PLO8 a try then I would stick with a capped limit. If the idea is to attract regular PLO8 players from other sites to switch to sky poker then I would opt for uncapped. As a recreational player myself I prefer the former option, although I suspect the later would be more saleable to the suits as it attracts new blood from competitors. I won't vote however as I doubt I will be making regular enough appearances in these events so I feel it would be unfair for me to vote in a self serving way on the off chance I may someday contend for a capped league prize. 
    Posted by Phantom66
    Yes it depends who it is hoped to attract. Not much in it either way IMO. Trying to be impartial I think the capped option might suit everyone as the requirements to take part are lower but people playing loads can still improve their chances. Being biased I would vote uncapped but capped would probably be more fair.
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  • markycashmarkycash
    edited January 2017
    In Response to Re: Would it be possible to have a nightly Omaha 8 B/H? (2 added to schedule for 7:15pm & 9:15pm tonight £200 & £300 GTD):
    Do you mean a leaderboard for the £11 bh alone, or combo with the £5•50? If so, then bonus points for winning both on the same night might be an idea.( If i can dream, Elvis Presley )
    Posted by chilling
    Both tourneys would count chilling and I have no objections if nobody else does to bonus points if someone wins both on the one night. Maybe double points for the night if you win both?
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  • chillingchilling
    edited January 2017
    Fast forwarding, a player could have it sewn up going into the last week.Would it take the gloss off? Maybe two teeny weeny prizes?
    Would the numbers drop off if some have no chance of a high finish?
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  • Phantom66Phantom66
    edited January 2017
    If you had a prize for the most bounties taken on a single night in the month that would still potentially be up for grabs all month and be open to all to have a chance of it.

    (In addition to any league prizes)
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  • suzy666suzy666
    edited January 2017
    In Response to Re: Would it be possible to have a nightly Omaha 8 B/H? (2 added to schedule for 7:15pm & 9:15pm tonight £200 & £300 GTD):
    If you had a prize for the most bounties taken on a single night in the month that would still potentially be up for grabs all month and be open to all to have a chance of it. (In addition to any league prizes)
    Posted by Phantom66

    i thought the original suggestion was for a weekly league. if this is the case then uncapped could work ok, as a new league week is always just round the corner if one is busy, had some bad scores etc, if not, i think a capped scheme allows a more equal footing, best 10-15 for the month out of ~60.

    Personally i think the original score system works better than just score based on finishing as more of an incentive to make the top places, and ties in with the other league, but either way sounds ok.

    Phantoms idea of a prize for the most bounties is v good, anyone can win a prize based on an exceptional night, and the more hard core can slog it out for table position in the league.

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  • markycashmarkycash
    edited January 2017
    In Response to Re: Would it be possible to have a nightly Omaha 8 B/H? (2 added to schedule for 7:15pm & 9:15pm tonight £200 & £300 GTD):
    Fast forwarding, a player could have it sewn up going into the last week.Would it take the gloss off? Maybe two teeny weeny prizes? Would the numbers drop off if some have no chance in high finish?
    Posted by chilling
    If it is capped at only your best 10 results then 'I think' many weeks the standings could be quite close. If this wasn't the case then as mentioned before I guess things could be tweaked.

    @Suzy It was a monthly one that was suggested by Tikay which I personally feel would work better, especially with a capped number of results which I also agree would probably be best to help give more people a shot.

    @Phantom I agree a little something for the most bounties taken by anyone in a single night over the month would be good. Just depends if TK and Sky agree to this addition :) It would help maintain interest even if the league was completely sewn up by someone quite early (although I doubt this would happen too often as mentioned).

    The scoring system seems to be the point with least consensus. Would a system were the FT gets points (1st = 10 points, 2nd = 7 points, 3rd = 5points, 4-6th = 2points and 1 point for any other type of cash) or one that gives points for placement (last = 1 point then 1 extra point for each position upwards you gain) be best?
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  • scouse_redscouse_red
    edited January 2017
    ok my twopenneth worth ...........

    the scoring system of working up sounds like a good one to me 1 point for last working up ......... however I would be tempted to add and extra 2 points for 3rd 3 points for 2nd and 5 points for 1st ........ and also add to this system the 1 point per head taken 
    I would also suggest using the capped system, as anyone can still pheasibly join in the last week of any given month and still obtain a score ..... I also agree again with putting the cap at 10.

    I will run a dummy league this week from Mon to Fri ( I will use all the three formats given and post them on Sat to give all a chance to look at it them)

    hope all are ok with this and I'll crack on with the various sheets  

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  • EnutEnut
    edited January 2017
    From a purely selfish point of view I would prefer some form of capped league. I am unlikely to be able to play anywhere near as many as some on here so would be nice if it was the best 10 or so results in a month, that would still give lower volume players a chance, however slim. 

    Last night for example I thoroughly enjoyed the £5 one, which rekindled my enthusiasm for a bit of poker having been well and truly slaughtered by running like a dog on spin up tables over the last week or so (vowed to give them up and then Sky does a promotion, talk about rubbing salt into the wounds!) The Hi Lo MTT was full of friendly banter and not a harsh word said by anyone. Unfortunately after 3 hours in that one there was no way I was going to play the £10 one as the potential first prize would in no way cover the cost of my divorce!
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  • chillingchilling
    edited January 2017
    So in theory, a player has exactly the same chance if they just decide to play the £5•50's  at 10 or more per month.
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  • EnutEnut
    edited January 2017
    In Response to Re: Would it be possible to have a nightly Omaha 8 B/H? (2 added to schedule for 7:15pm & 9:15pm tonight £200 & £300 GTD) Feedback on new league needed:
    So in theory, a player has exactly the same chance if they just decide to play the £5•50's  at 10 or more per month.
    Posted by chilling
    No, as you are much more likely to do better if you can count your top 10 finishes from 50 entries than top 10 from 10, for example. I think.
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  • chillingchilling
    edited January 2017
    In Response to Re: Would it be possible to have a nightly Omaha 8 B/H? (2 added to schedule for 7:15pm & 9:15pm tonight £200 & £300 GTD) Feedback on new league needed:
    In Response to Re: Would it be possible to have a nightly Omaha 8 B/H? (2 added to schedule for 7:15pm & 9:15pm tonight £200 & £300 GTD) Feedback on new league needed : No, as you are much more likely to do better if you can count your top 10 finishes from 50 entries than top 10 from 10, for example. I think.
    Posted by Enut
    Sounds expensive.Harsh, where have i heard that before! VWD yesterday.
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  • safc71safc71
    edited January 2017
    This sounds like a great idea and scouse reds suggestion looks good to me.Got to agree with a capped league as not everybody can play every night , i would like to play every night but like others sometimes i have a early start at work which means no late poker :( .  Btw wp Enut bouncing back from a slow start (down to 600 chips) to winning it was very good. Well done
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  • markycashmarkycash
    edited January 2017
    In Response to Re: Would it be possible to have a nightly Omaha 8 B/H? (2 added to schedule for 7:15pm & 9:15pm tonight £200 & £300 GTD):
    ok my twopenneth worth ........... the scoring system of working up sounds like a good one to me 1 point for last working up ......... however I would be tempted to add and extra 2 points for 3rd 3 points for 2nd and 5 points for 1st ........ and also add to this system the 1 point per head taken  I would also suggest using the capped system, as anyone can still pheasibly join in the last week of any given month and still obtain a score ..... I also agree again with putting the cap at 10. I will run a dummy league this week from Mon to Fri ( I will use all the three formats given and post them on Sat to give all a chance to look at it them) hope all are ok with this and I'll crack on with the various sheets  
    Posted by scouse_red
    This all sounds great to me! Mainly because it seems to reflect many of the suggestions that have been made in thread. There is weighting to the top places but everyone is getting some points for playing and this general system awards more points (rightly so IMO) the more players you beat. The capped system also judging by the feedback seems the only sensible option to ensure that it is not only the players who play every night have a chance of winning. There is obviously still an advantage to playing loads of them (again rightly so IMO at least) but someone could certainly turn up for a smaller amount of games and walk away with top place.

    I know this must be a lot of work for you to do and therefore if you are happy with this and nobody has any serious objections I suggest skipping any 'polls' as this method does seem to generally reflect the feedback from players.

    I think it was chilling who suggested a points reward for taking down both on 1 night? Not sure if this can be added in too? Doubling the points won for that night would seem reasonable? I am confident this will happen but it will probably be a rare occurence to win both on the 1 night. I would guess someone might do it once every other month. Not a dealbreaker this point and if anyone has any objections then just chip in with them here.

    Regarding the idea of a prize for whoever collects most bounties in a single tourney each month. We could maybe leave that with Sky to decide if they want to add this.

    @Enut congrats for winning the £5.50er! and also congrats to Suzy for the £11er. I chuckled at the divorce statement :D
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  • suzy666suzy666
    edited January 2017
     I think it was chilling who suggested a points reward for taking down both on 1 night? Not sure if this can be added in too? Doubling the points won for that night would seem reasonable? I am confident this will happen but it will probably be a rare occurence to win both on the 1 night. I would guess someone might do it once every other month. 

    my 2 cents-but why? is winning 2 on one night better than 2 1sts on consequective nights?
    i think doubling the score is way too much, maybe an extra 10 pts per 1st.

    also i think you under estimate the frequency that this might happen-just in the last 3-4 PL08 thurs eve, MArkycash got 2 1sts, myself a 1,2,3, cormach a 1,2. i wouldnt be surprised if someone did this once a fortnight.

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  • markycashmarkycash
    edited January 2017
    In Response to Re: Would it be possible to have a nightly Omaha 8 B/H? (2 added to schedule for 7:15pm & 9:15pm tonight £200 & £300 GTD):
     I think it was chilling who suggested a points reward for taking down both on 1 night? Not sure if this can be added in too? Doubling the points won for that night would seem reasonable? I am confident this will happen but it will probably be a rare occurence to win both on the 1 night. I would guess someone might do it once every other month.  my 2 cents-but why? is winning 2 on one night better than 2 1sts on consequective nights? i think doubling the score is way too much, maybe an extra 10 pts per 1st. also i think you under estimate the frequency that this might happen-just in the last 3-4 PL08 thurs eve, MArkycash got 2 1sts, myself a 1,2,3, cormach a 1,2. i wouldnt be surprised if someone did this once a fortnight.
    Posted by suzy666
    Fair point Suzy. Does anyone have any objections to a 10 point bonus per 1st is someone does the double on one of the evenings?
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  • edrichedrich
    edited January 2017
    I personally wouldn't have much of a bonus if any at all.

    Although a fantastic achievement, I think doubling someones points when you are capping it at ten is too much. They are already getting a big surge up the league which I feel is reward enough.

                          Ed.
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  • edrichedrich
    edited January 2017
    In Response to Re: Would it be possible to have a nightly Omaha 8 B/H? (2 added to schedule for 7:15pm & 9:15pm tonight £200 & £300 GTD):
    In Response to Re: Would it be possible to have a nightly Omaha 8 B/H? (2 added to schedule for 7:15pm & 9:15pm tonight £200 & £300 GTD) : Fair point Suzy. Does anyone have any objections to a 10 point bonus per 1st is someone does the double on one of the evenings?
    Posted by markycash
    Ah, you got there first. I think that is going the right way if you are going to go down the bonus route,

                             Ed.
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  • Lambert180Lambert180
    edited January 2017
    It doesn't affect me cos I have absolutely no clue about how to play PLO8 past understanding hand rankings etc. but if you're gonna give points for all positions i.e. first bust out gets 1 point, 2nd person to bust gets 2 points etc then imo you deffo need to increase the points around the FT mark. 

    It just seems 'wrong' that if you had 2 MTTs both with 30 runners each, one person busts first in one but wins the other for 31 points total, while someone else comes 14th two nights in a row and has 32 points. It's clear (to me at least) which of those sets of results is better. It should imo be weighted towards doing well (in an MTT sense - trying to win) rather than who can ladder the most.

    Fwiw, if you give someone 10 bonus points for winning both, on top of the fact they get the max points in each comp for winning them, it'll just be gg that week/month or whatever, cos it's vv unlikely they'll catchable
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