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He occasionally frequents G-Luton too, what a character, the original & best Mr C Station.
He sometimes sits in the £2 £2 Dealers choice game, which plays much bigger than £2 £2 should, & it gets pretty hairy, as you cannot get him off anything.
If you sit at that game with £1,000 in front, & Bill is on the Table, the whole lot is going to go in pretty soon, & you don't have the faintest idea what he is going to turn up with.
He catches sometimes, & we lose a tidy pot we think we should have won, but you gotta take those setbacks with a shrug of the shoulders, because he is great value. Cake & eat it, & all that.
What a shame that a good few players don't understand that playing loosey-gooseys will result in a few standard outdraws, but over time will be very profitable. It really makes me sad to see them moan at a loosey outdrawing them, without seeing the other side of the coin.
If you have any words of advice for these guys, let me know, please, because I try, day after day, to explain it to them, but every day I see scores of comments along the lines of "I had J-J, idiot called me with rag ace, & guess what, he got there". (Don't you just groan @ the cheap sarcasm?!) It spoils their enjoyment of a lovely game, simply because they cannot grasp the very obvious logic.
Loving the Diary, fine work Mr D.
I've been following this thread from the beginning, excellent read!
Had the 'pleasure' of sitting to your left in the two All Rounder events for most of the night and did notice your chatbox comment following your exit from PLO MTT.
Hardly the most offensive parting comment and there were no ****, but yes I did think wow Tommy's lost it, though as you say, you pulled it off and did at least leave through gritted teeth.
I too find the losses at PLO to be more tilting than NLH, maybe that's because I am still a relative novice at Omaha and perhaps can't see everyone's logic, or maybe it is the beauty or beast of the game?
In fact last night (I believe), was my first Omaha MTT of the year, this was after my experiences in the first UKOPS sat and a couple of other MTT's around that time, where I just couldn't get my head around the majority of play from my opponents from the start to my untimely exits.
Up until then I had been getting more and more drawn towards the game of Omaha, but then snapped and decided it was just a joke of a game, full of Bingo style play.
Anyway here's a more light hearted confession on the theme of Omaha.
On Saturday afternoon, I decided to play an £11DYM NLH game, only when the first hand was dealt, did I get the shock of seeing 4 cards being dealt, not sure how I managed to register for the wrong event, (obviously Sky's fault), but no harm done as I thought I could cope with a DYM Omaha game.
Then to my horror, I realised it was PLO8, a game of which I really didn't know the basic rules, I had a couple of attempts when the game was first launched on Sky and failed miserably.
My confusion increased when I think on two occasions I lost the low hand, (when each time I thought I was good), to someone holding Ace high!
I though the low hand was with card values 8 or less, how can someone win the low hand win with an Ace, or was I misreading the screen shot of the winning low hand?
So, I sat out for a few hands, quickly ready a couple of tutorials, (ahhh so Ace is high and LOW in PLO), don't know why I couldn't consider the possibility of an Ace being a low card, but there you go.
I think you can also use the same card to make up a high hand and a low hand, though still not entirely sure on that one.
Anyway with 5 minutes worth of knowledge, I went back to the table and believe it or not I managed to finish in the top 3!
Poker has the potential to bring enjoyment and satisfaction on so many levels!
[QUOTE. Anyway here's a more light hearted confession on the theme of Omaha. On Saturday afternoon, I decided to play an £11DYM NLH game, only when the first hand was dealt, did I get the shock of seeing 4 cards being dealt, not sure how I managed to register for the wrong event, (obviously Sky's fault), but no harm done as I thought I could cope with a DYM Omaha game. Then to my horror, I realised it was PLO8, a game of which I really didn't know the basic rules, .
Posted by TheDart
Another funny..I had been only playing poker on-line for a couple of weeks when one night 4 x hole cards popped up when I reg'd for a £1:10 DYM! I had NO idea why! I asked in the chat box if everyone had 4 x hole cards despite it being obvious they had. Anyway they all thought I was acting it/drunk.
I then had to google the word Omaha after I noticed it on the top banner. A quick Google obvs helped as I cashed, more by accident than design tho! Luckily it wasn't PLO8 which I've just discovered.
I've also mistakenly reg's for a £11 DYM (way above my level) and cashed without playing a hand!
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Question ..Do you ever NOT play because you don't feel in the right" frame of mind or do you force yourself to sit and "see how it goes". I do a fair bit of running and sometimes I have to force myself to go for a run because experience has shown me that those can be the days I have my best sessions. Just wondering if poker is the same?
Great daily diary read BTW
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I got wind of your diary watching Rich Orford the other night. He's a fan and i see why!! Had a good read and i'm still going as there's so much good stuff as well as tips for a relative novice( just 7 months of serious learning). I'm an ex maths sec school teacher i'm sooo pleased to say. Your subject? Best poker books IYO?
Nice to see you beat yourself up for the chat incident. I've seen some really big rants and i have no hesitation in reporting it. Whether its injustice tilt or not, i don't see why the table has to put up with it. Can their chat be turned off, i ask? As you say poker is there to be enjoyed...lets enjoy it. Its a learning process, i'm loving Tommy. The book collection is growing but the correct route isn't obvious to me and any tips for new but keen players would be a great helptp me and others.
If i had to ask you could you consider writing a short article for people new to the game but playing very regularly and willing toput time and effort in to improve. Could it consider:
1. statistics aimed for
2. games to play to learn most
3. most diff skills to acquire
4. what to spend my time on.
5. analysis of hands...what to look for.
6. taking notes....how, organise, priorities of what to note, any software help
7. how to approach the learning process in the most efficient way.
8. whether some form of coaching at thi stage would be worthwhile, cost effective etc
Sorry for the extensive list, tommy, but i do feel you're keen to help and obviously have a deep knowledge. any time you could spend on this would benefit alot of players who enjoy the game recreationally but do want to improve. I had to take ill-health retirement from teaching over ten years ago stemming from the tragic suicide of my brother, Mark. it sounds corny but i've put him inside me and lived my life to get the most from it now. New skills are there to be learned. Golf i love but gallstones have stopped that for over 6months. Now i've had the op that will return but poker is another skill i'd like to improve. cheers Tommy, keep up the good work.
Steve aka profman15
Villain is a fish (anyone who L/C is in my books), cant see the 7 helping villains range(may give him oesd) i mean 53? 58? i doubt this, Kh is a nice card for you. . . (when thinking of raising for value with you'r set on the river ovc), there are probably plenty of K-combos in villains L/C range, so we are only losing to AhXh prob<Ah9h, seeing he did not open pre, small suited cards are there too i suppose. Tricky v unknown, but because he L/C i would not automatically give him credit for the Flush, also from my experience, fish do not value bet, his bet looks a scared bet imo, and he is so likely to have a K a lot of the time. Losing value tilts me more than bad-beats, and its a huge leak that i am always trying to fix in my game.
Loving the thread btw m8.
Great diary, thank you.
Tommy's gonna have a hard job keeping up with all these questions, he's getting more than Tikay!
Great job, excellent thread.
I think your thinking is totally upside down here. Firstly you mention your stack, you have 30BB. Yes not deep but no need to go mental with this Tellytubby of a hand.
Secondly you say you don't want Digger in cheap. With this hand that is exactly what you want, The old adage of PLO compared to NLHE was that in NLHE you make your money by getting people out of a pot but in PLO you make your money by getting people into a pot. This still holds true today. PLO by it's nature is a drawing game. You want to either make nut/very strong hands and get paid or represent the nuts to nick a few here and there. There is barely any hand you can have that you want to get a 30BB stack into the middle preflop. This hand is certainly not one of the few. The more in the pot the merrier as long as it's cheap to get into, then on the occasions you make your nut hand or get a huge combo draw (straight wrap draw and NFD etc) you have much more chance of getting paid with more people in there. We're equity peddling and we want the money in when our equity is much higher than everyone else. There are spots where we can bluff down the streets but that's more advanced and more effective with deeper stacks.
Hand strength - Not great, not completely awful as at least we have a three card run down and a nut suit, but we still block one of our flush outs and a 3 card run down is not a little bit worse that 4 cards consecutive, it's quite a bit worse (a better way to look at it is a 4 card rundown is a lot better). We're out of position which is bad but it's only one more blind to see the flop and more importantly we close the preflop action, so I'm flicking in the call here to see the flop.
Irony - If the player with the Kings understands PLO you could get him off on the flop or turn. At the very least you can get it in with a decent amount of equity. Now I don't know the player so I don't know if semi bluffing or calling to draw on your wrap draw is the correct play in this spot, but at least you would have had options.
John, you're still approaching PLO like it's NLHE with bonus cards. Erase that thinking. It's a completely new game to learn.
Oh my oh my oh my......
Secondly you say you don't want Digger in cheap. With this hand that is exactly what you want, The old adage of PLO compared to NLHE was that in NLHE you make your money by getting people out of a pot but in PLO you make your money by getting people into a pot. This still holds true today. PLO by it's nature is a drawing game.
Tommy, that is so well described. Is any game so misunderstood by so many, as Omaha?
PS - will you marry me?
I'm quite astounded how well this has been received and totally delighted. I will try to keep it fresh and interesting, using all the jazzy lingo the kids use.
Word.
I've mentioned it earlier, but I play at an interesting private club called Harlow Hounds. Yes in the town of roundabouts in the middle of a trading estate by a dog track, many old school gamblers and youthful degens sit down to play some pokers. The front door of the venue is normally in a constant state of swinging as people go to a cashpoint to reload for the cash game (I have absolutely no idea where this cashpoint is, the place is pretty much in the middle of nowhere). The cash game is juicier than a mouthful of Opal Fruits (for the very young among you these are now called Starburst, but i refuse to change. And it's a Marathon, not a Snickers. Don't get me started on Jiff).
For a private members club the place is run pretty well. The floor is fair, dealers are always organised and are in general quite good and the tournament normally runs well. There was a small hitch the last time I was there though. About 90 minutes into a MTT the whole place had a power cut, complete darkness for ten seconds followed by the twinkle of 50 iPhones providing more spotlights than a Take That concert.
We're sat there for 10 minutes and an announcement is made that we'll wait another 20 minutes and if the power does not return, the remaining players will do a 60 way chop. Fair under the circumstances you think, I certainly thought so. However let's remember this was a room full of poker players.
These were the various responses.
'No way, we can play using the phones'
'I'm not doing a chop, I'll wait as long as it takes.'
'I've got more chips than him'
'I was knocked out, I should get my money back'
'We're still trying to play our hand'
'Is the kitchen still open?'
The fellow next to me then offered everyone at our table to toss a coin for our parts of the potential chop, gotta love a gambler. All through this the one cash table was still playing through phone-light. Nothing will ever stop six players seeing a flop in that game. Not a power cut, bomb blast or common sense.
Thankfully the lights returned, the cash players didn't blink. Then after spending ten minutes arguing if hands in progress should be redealt (a few people were very adamant they shouldn't be, and that was about as easy a live tell as you can find) we finally got going and had a laugh. I'm sure Bingo Bill hit three gutshots in the darkness.
That's live poker.
Did anyone see Question Time last night? If you missed it you missed a treat in social analysis. Two of the guests were David Starkey and Clark Carlisle. For those of you who don't know who these people are here are the wiki pages:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Starkey
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clark_Carlisle
Both are very intelligent but they are extraordinarily different. Starkey the well known Historian who is a huge campaigner of Equal Sexuality Rights and Carlisle, former Professional Footballer and now Chairman of the management committee at the PFA. I was hoping for so real debate between both these men but sadly it fell short. Starkey is almost impossible to debate with, if he sees one chink in your argument then he shuts down, shakes his head and puffs out his cheeks. For such an intelligent man he can have the maturity of a five year old.
Here we have two men who have had to battle discrimination all of their lives (Starkey is gay and Carlisle is black), you'd have hoped they meet at some common ground of mutual respect. Sadly I don't think Starkey could accept Carlisle as an intellectual peer as his couldn't get past the footballer stereotype and likewise Carlisle couldn't see anything other than a pompous posh bloke. Also I don't think either of them could accept each other's views on religion. We really need to find more middle ground if we're going to improve as a society. Otherwise wwe're just doomed to repeat each and every mistake of the past.
Carlisle is going to find his increasing amount of media appearances difficult in the future. I think he's trying to represent the balanced side of professional footballers but this is going to get increasingly tough as they earn more and more money while the average fan in the stands is sacrificing more and more to pay for a ticket. If the professionals he represented acted on the whole in a much more reserved manner then it would be possible, but he's only one more airgun incident away from arguing an impossible case.
he currently plays for my beloved Northampton Town.
I missed this episode of Question Time but i want to catch it at some point over the weekend on iplayer.
Don't know why I got it into my head that he was retired, must be all of the TV he's doing. Stupidly I remember seeing him playing on the Football League Show recently I think.
Many apologies, Up the Cobblers!!!
It's HU PLO200, we're playing a person we think is decent but our notes say 'Pays off when on tilt'. We are at rather a stalemate in the contest when this hand happens. Now before anyone says it, I hate my turn bet at the moment. We get check raised on the turn, given the play before this point in my mind his hand is face up as nut straight no house extensions. We're not getting the odds to call for a pair up but if our notes are true we not only have implied odds in this hand but in all the hands in the session after. Should we call?
And yes it's not a very good starting hand, but we're playing HU and have the button. That's my defence for that.
To answer your Q. I'm def calling! House up on the river FTW! NOW can you do some house keeping on ya thread! lol!
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Against a random holding QQ is one of the few occasions when I'm happier to call it off rather than be the shover. Of course it depends on the betting but these days being the jammer with QQ is much more likely to be turning QQ into a bluff than it was two years ago. I'm tending to call 3 and 4 bets while holding QQ these days, looking to assess on the flop rather than getting it all in pre, but if they overbet shove I'm still hitting call against a random.
I'm quite happy for people to argue against this and I confess I am not completely sure my line is optimal.
The bonus is limited to £500 so I don't think there's much point banging on the upper end DYMs to try to bag the bonus. My plan is to get my numbers up on the £11-£22 and then finish with a £110. Then do it again. Currently the plan is going surprisingly well, six not out.
Come back soon for news on my epic fail.
Me and my big mouth. Fun run though, defo going to fire a few more bullets at it this month.