Diary of an MTT player becoming a cash player :o

Batkin88

I think they are extremely difficult early doors but because of the fields and last longer aspect I enjoy the mid stages here as you can bully like mad. I was pretty much chip leader for the majority but had a hic cup with Larson when I managed to get into a 100bb flip with Q high lol!

Yeah the mains are pretty much similar but smaller stacks so early on it is quite easy to chip up against the players playing scared.

F_Ivanovic

In Response to Re: Diary of an MTT player becoming a cash player :

id stay away from f-ivanovic on 20nl
Posted by IDONKCALLU

Don't listen to this advice!!! :P

I am currently 40BI up in about 2 weeks at 20nl though, so I've definitely either been running/playing well!! (or both! Personally I don't avoid playing anyone because I think the challenge of playing other good players helps you get better. 

Just seen your AA vs QQ hand batkin, and wanted to know what your thought process was to shoving in almost 200bbs pre-flop with your aces after a single raise? Unless your opponent has exactly QQ or KK then you're never getting a call, and even with QQ most good villains will decide to fold because even though your hand looks like it could be AK, QQ is still only going to be a flip at best. Also, if they had AK they'd know they were either facing AK or racing/miles behind so AK is a snap fold pre.

You're just missing out a ton of value by shoving because your not getting value from the huge majority of villains raising range.

The only case for shoving here is if you knew someone at the table was tilting and would call it off with any reasonable looking holding. edit: Just saw your post at the top of the page. I understand your reasoning now but still don't think it's a good enough reason to shove. It might make QQ more tempted to call a shove (as we saw) but the rest of the hands I still think would be folding.

Lambert180

I've got to agree, the AA hand is played pretty terribly all round (sorry lol). Firstly, we're 300xBB deep, granted only 200xBB effective against others, and have the strongest possible starting hand in hold 'em so we decide to limp?

Even if the villian is a potential spewer over a limper, we're not playing HU, we're playing 6max so we have to think about the rest of the table... what if the villian you're targetting happens to have 72o so just folds, but the rest of the table call and you go 5way to a tiny pot w/ AA feeling rather stupid?

As played, everything will be bad from this point imo, cos limp/3betting or limp/shoving all look stupidly strong as Ivanovic says and will get snap folds from most players with all but about 2 hands. Do you not want to raise/3bet and play pots against AK/AQ/AJ etc... hands that you have completely destroyed... cos this play takes away any opportunity to play against these dominated hands.

FWIW, my only piece of advice to you from seeing you play is that you're bet sizing is way too big. I don't know how often you're 3/4betting light or running bluffs post flop, but assuming that you aint just being a massive nit that is betting for value 100% of the time, then it's in your best interests to make your sizings a bit smaller. Not only does it makes your bluffs cheaper, but it also means when you do have value hands you leave room for your opponent to call with weaker holdings rather than just hoping to have coolered them in a spot where they can't fold to any bet size.

Batkin88

Yes the AA v QQ hand was a unique situation he was calling far far far worse hands there I would expect calls from low suited connecters as much as KK QQ AK AQ here due to previous play and I had done this multiple times prior. I would never ever normally play this like I did but knew I had the opportunity to get the full amount pre flop here by doing what I was hoping he would think was an AK like move.

Thanks for the bet sizing advice Lambert I will take note and give it a go!

Thanks for all the advice especially from you 2 it is appreciated thanks!

GELDY

You do seem to be taking a more do or die approach to your hands than would seem optimal for cash

now at mtts this may work very well.  The oppo values his tournament life and doesn't call you on marginal positions,  and you would rather win one mtt and crash out of the other rather than two min cashes. 

However neither is relevant to the cash player. It is solely cash in the pot and whether the play is +/-ev.  So you may find it harder to bluff off peeps than in mtts.

Batkin88

Yep couldn't agree more I am finding you have to play the cards a lot more in cash and the only players worth bluffing are the better players which makes it all the more harder to do!

I seem to start sessions losing 2/3 BI's then slowly gring em back and end up like a few up, is this normal. It takes me a while to get used to the dynamics and to pick the players to go against so to speak!

Any advice?

liamboi11

In Response to Re: Diary of an MTT player becoming a cash player :

Yep couldn't agree more I am finding you have to play the cards a lot more in cash and the only players worth bluffing are the better players which makes it all the more harder to do! I seem to start sessions losing 2/3 BI's then slowly gring em back and end up like a few up, is this normal. It takes me a while to get used to the dynamics and to pick the players to go against so to speak! Any advice?
Posted by Batkin88

hey kalie hope you are doing well at the tables.

with regards to losing a buyin`s early on I do this a lot myself but you will get sessions the other way round aswell so don`t worry about it too much, but be good idea check hand history see is you are being spewy in losing these buyin`s or just standard/cooler hands.

also i`m prob wrong person to give advice on this about the dynamics/players at table etc because I usually know and played with a lot of players at these levels so I get involved straight away lol,but what I would suggest is just play a tight abc game game for a few rounds watch the table see what players are having wars vs eacj other/who`s waiting for aces/who`s being aggro etc and then adjust accordingly you have plenty of time at cash table there is no rush to get involved straight away hope this makes sense gl at tables.

hhyftrftdr

Yeah I often start off losing, then spend the session trying to turn it around. Best way to combat it (need to listen to my own advice here!) I imagine is to start off pretty tight, get a feel for the table and players, absorb all the information available. Then loosen up as the session continues and you are more aware of your table and who can be pushed off pots/can't be bluffed.

If you get coolered early doors then fair enough, but I know I sometimes stack off too light before really knowing my table.

Batkin88

Yes great advice thanks guys, I have gone through my hand history and it is 100% a case of spewing and trying to make an impact straight away! I will take note and really put it to practise asap!

Check this hand out, one of the reasons I love this game! Just a complete cooler but a hand he and I will remember for a long time.

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
Donttelmum	Small blind		£0.20	£0.20	£19.60
billytheki	Big blind		£0.20	£0.40	£33.75
	Your hole cards	A A
Batkin88	Raise		£0.60	£1.00	£30.89
weedgi	Call		£0.60	£1.60	£45.07
Donttelmum	Fold
billytheki	Fold
Flop
		A 9 9
Batkin88	Bet		£0.80	£2.40	£30.09
weedgi	Call		£0.80	£3.20	£44.27
Turn
		4
Batkin88	Check
weedgi	Check
River
		6
Batkin88	Bet		£2.40	£5.60	£27.69
weedgi	Raise		£8.40	£14.00	£35.87
Batkin88	All-in		£27.69	£41.69	£0.00
weedgi	All-in		£35.87	£77.56	£0.00
weedgi	Unmatched bet		£14.18	£63.38	£14.18
Batkin88	Show	A A
weedgi	Show	9 9
weedgi	Win	Four 9s	£61.58		£75.76

Batkin88

BR has taking a hit recently especially since I scrapped the separate rolls idea and just went with an overall roll of £800. I still play the mains via sats mostly but have dropped to £734 ish.

Definitely improving and not massively bothered with the loss as showing improvements and fairly sure I can get this level very soon.

Regards,

Kalie x

weedgi

unlucky batkin   cooler  ,your games good enough to beat  this level  good luck

Batkin88

Quick update, had a great weekend on cash across all levels. I did break my BR management plan slightly but for good reason. I wanted to play some of the best on just 1 table for a long period of time so I went nl100 and had launder and scotty77 there and few others throughout the 6 hours I was there. I also found I was playing loads of hands and wanted to prove to myself I can sit play 1 table and play properly! Which I did as I left up 2 BI's.

I had a pretty miserable time in my MTT's only reaching one FT over the entire weekend, luckily it was the £110 BH so I got a decent return.

My roll is now  £1.004.57 only £96 more and up a level!

Batkin88

Quick update, had a great weekend on cash across all levels. I did break my BR management plan slightly but for good reason. I wanted to play some of the best on just 1 table for a long period of time so I went nl100 and had launder and scotty77 there and few others throughout the 6 hours I was there. I also found I was playing loads of hands and wanted to prove to myself I can sit play 1 table and play properly! Which I did as I left up 2 BI's.

I had a pretty miserable time in my MTT's only reaching one FT over the entire weekend, luckily it was the £110 BH so I got a decent return.

My roll is now  £1.004.57 only £96 more and up a level!

LARSON7

lol the heady hights of cash!

Gl to you! I would say you are one of the best players i have played against.

Hope the cash adventure continues well...

And tomorrow night be kind in giving me your chips in the monday night MTT games:D

Donttelmum

Bit tiring flopping the nuts v you and getting it all in and losing.

Pleased my money helped to boost you roll though.

LARSON7

In Response to Re: Diary of an MTT player becoming a cash player :

Bit tiring flopping the nuts v you and getting it all in and losing. Pleased my money helped to boost you roll though.
Posted by Donttelmum

Aslong as it wasn't quads versus a straight flush, that would be bad:(

Batkin88

In Response to Re: Diary of an MTT player becoming a cash player :

Bit tiring flopping the nuts v you and getting it all in and losing. Pleased my money helped to boost you roll though.
Posted by Donttelmum

Come on that hand played itself I had straight draw/flush draw and straight flush draw it would be criminal to fold the flop there. Although it was VUL as you did flop top set I did feel a little bad

I am sure you will get it back we play countless hands against eachother!

Batkin88

As most are aware I had quite an extended break from SKY poker, I have enjoyed my return and have had some decent results at the same time. However there is one thing that upsets me about whats happened to this site, obviously players come and go and we have lost some over the years for many different reasons. But the forum is nowhere near used to its potential, not many hands go up in the clinic only a few a day to analyse. This then allows the trolls to come out and ruin a perfectly good forum set up as they have no life and enjoy caressing their ego whilst sitting in the comfort of their mum and dads home.

Now I haven't got a solution to this but have a few ideas such as with the new download have an instant post in clinic button, (This would then bring up a text box and a header so you can fill in title and dets and questions)
This may help the clinic to be used more!

Or even if Sky get a few of their regs on board to post a hand once a day with a question of relevance to get a discussion going.

Miss the days when there would be 20/30 replies regarding hand histories and the days I could post in the BBV without some troll advising me how to play the hand.

liamboi11

good idea kalie,I also agree the forum not the same it used to be.Had loads of discussions about hands poker stuff etc,I don`t know the reasons if if it because people find it hard to post a hand or players have left like you said or another reason some people go over hands in private with some poker mates which is understandable but yeah maybe the option you suggested could possibly increase hands getting posted and discussed.

well done beatin DTM in a hand took me nearly 3 months to win hand vs him I think I still pay for half his rent the now lol ,he`s a nice guy though so don`t mind losing vs him.

gl at the tables and well done on the bankroll going up

IDONKCALLU

cmon dtm aint the hardest player to beat ya giving him far to much credit i know a few better players then dtm at that level

just because he puts loads of volume in doesnt mean hes a great player  he prob a break even player and earns hes money by making priority each month  

waller02

In Response to Re: Diary of an MTT player becoming a cash player :

cmon dtm aint the hardest player to beat ya giving him far to much credit i know a few better players then dtm at that level just because he puts loads of volume in doesnt mean hes a great player  he prob a break even player and earns hes money by making priority each month  
Posted by IDONKCALLU

let me guess donk.......you are one of them?

Kalie, great to see you making real progress on the cash tables, gl on the next level.

IDONKCALLU

i hardly play cash as im a mtt player still can hold my own on cash table 

liamboi11

In Response to Re: Diary of an MTT player becoming a cash player :

cmon dtm aint the hardest player to beat ya giving him far to much credit i know a few better players then dtm at that level just because he puts loads of volume in doesnt mean hes a great player  he prob a break even player and earns hes money by making priority each month  
Posted by IDONKCALLU

mate I never said anything about the guys ability I was meaning I was just 2nd best to him in all situations like for example i have top set vs his big combo draw and vice versa it was just a little joke anywayz.

plus I defo don`t think he`s a break even player I have played a lot with the guy he defo winning player maybe not the best at these levels but he is a good solid player imo.

prob the best i`ve played with at these levels is infinityev or bighawk89 if I had to mention names.

Donttelmum

In Response to Re: Diary of an MTT player becoming a cash player :

cmon dtm aint the hardest player to beat ya giving him far to much credit i know a few better players then dtm at that level just because he puts loads of volume in doesnt mean hes a great player  he prob a break even player and earns hes money by making priority each month  
Posted by IDONKCALLU

LOL

Do you hear me claiming to be the best?

Have you tried playing 20 tables and playing every spot optimally?

I'm so upset I might have a 4 week forum break ;-)

IDONKCALLU

tbh i been there i cant do 20 tables and 10 hrs a day it doesnt appeal to me it would do my nut in ive played 6 tables 12 hrs a day for a whole month during a promo never again no social life and fooked my head up couldnt sleep etc 

bbMike

I agree Kalie, too many trolls and too much derailing.

Now, where were we??...

Donttelmum

In Response to Re: Diary of an MTT player becoming a cash player :

I agree Kalie, too many trolls and too much derailing. Now, where were we??...
Posted by bbMike

Agreed, there's always one donk who does this.

Donttelmum

In Response to Re: Diary of an MTT player becoming a cash player :

cmon dtm aint the hardest player to beat ya giving him far to much credit i know a few better players then dtm at that level just because he puts loads of volume in doesnt mean hes a great player  he prob a break even player and earns hes money by making priority each month  
Posted by IDONKCALLU

Break even?  Guess again pal.

NColley

In Response to Re: Diary of an MTT player becoming a cash player :

As most are aware I had quite an extended break from SKY poker, I have enjoyed my return and have had some decent results at the same time. However there is one thing that upsets me about whats happened to this site, obviously players come and go and we have lost some over the years for many different reasons. But the forum is nowhere near used to its potential, not many hands go up in the clinic only a few a day to analyse. This then allows the trolls to come out and ruin a perfectly good forum set up as they have no life and enjoy caressing their ego whilst sitting in the comfort of their mum and dads home. Now I haven't got a solution to this but have a few ideas such as with the new download have an instant post in clinic button, (This would then bring up a text box and a header so you can fill in title and dets and questions) This may help the clinic to be used more! Or even if Sky get a few of their regs on board to post a hand once a day with a question of relevance to get a discussion going. Miss the days when there would be 20/30 replies regarding hand histories and the days I could post in the BBV without some troll advising me how to play the hand.
Posted by Batkin88

Regarding the clinic, its the terrible quality of the posts that probably led to tonnes of great contributors not posting anymore. Threads that have just a hand history, or include very minimal explanation. Threads that are bad beats or very trivial spots. Advice given just being ignored/trolled/called out for being terrible without a real counter argument. Really think moving it to the bottom will be the end of it.

Anyway, congrats on the progress but I'm sure you're wise enough to realise you've experienced a pretty unsustainable heater at the start. Think moving to cash isn't the best choice to do considering how well you appear to play at MTTs, but if thats want you want to play then good luck!

Batkin88

Thanks for the comments, NCOLLEY thanks for the praise, I still play MTT'S but majority on different sites as big tournament throughout the day to play. This cash level is relatively small considering my combined BR across all sites but I started with a specific plan as wanted to work my way up as opposed to buying straight in at nl200 and losing loads to learn. I definitely find cash tedious but am learning so much so good investment at the moment.