a new year..a new game...CASH...still playing

devonfish5

In Response to Re: a new year..a new game...CASH..small steps but going forwards.:

Really mate? I think you would do really well at higher limits, there's a lot more poker going on at slightly higher levels. You are a solid, good player, I would say hands down you would be far superior to a lot of players at NL10. But good luck getting up to £500, look forward to hearing you do it.
Posted by LARSON7

thanks larson,
i've played nl10 remember not so long ago,and losing £100 in a session isn't great especially when your b/roll is only around the £300 mark,hence my reason to drop back to nl4.
will get back there again though and give it another go.

dev

devonfish5

In Response to Re: a new year..a new game...CASH..small steps but going forwards.:

Disagree. I have no idea why this misconception is so common. If somebody cannot beat the bad players on a consistent basis, you will not beat the fairly bad players at 10nl and will quite frankly get owned at 20nl and up.
Posted by calcalfold

hi calcalfod,
agree too.nl4 is beatable just the same as any other level.
if i can beat nl4 then that's the 1st step complete,on to level 2.

dev

devonfish5

In Response to Re: a new year..a new game...CASH..small steps but going forwards.:

In Response to Re: a new year..a new game...CASH..small steps but going forwards. : +1 This is definitely right. You may find in some spots some things work better like c-betting gets more folds because people won't just constantly station off with bottom pair, but overall, if someone can't beat 4NL, then they're unlikely to beat 10NL+ imo. FWIW, Dev, I still think you should go back to less tables. If you put in a few hours 4 tabling say at 4NL, then you can still make decent regular profits and you'll have a much better idea of how you're getting on as a player. It'll give you SO much more time to check the HH when you beat someone and they muck (because you should ALWAYS look what they had), writing notes on people, making more player dependent decisions etc. With the determination you have Dev and the amount of hard work you put in to beat DYMs, I'm sure you'll get there.
Posted by Lambert180

hi Paul,
i've played 2 tables 4 tables 6 tables mate,and i'm now playing 9 and am really comfortable playing them.
don't forget i was playing as many as 15-18 dym tables every night,so 9 is a breeze.  lol
i'm getting more premium hands by playing 9 and it seems to be helping me get over all the cr*p you have to deal with playing at nl4.
i make notes all the time even while playing 9 tables and they deffo do help especially on the big decisions.
ex;
y'day v loose player was raising big trying to buy pot,i went all-in with 66 he called with AK , my hand held..easy money.
it's all about trial and error for me i think atm,so the more tables and therefore hands i play the more practise i'm getting,which is good i feel.
i'll drop down number of tables if needed and would deffo be playing less when i move back up to nl10 but 9 is all gravy atm.  lol

dev

devonfish5

In Response to Re: a new year..a new game...CASH..small steps but going forwards.:

Agree with what has been said above but i will just add that imo it is harder to win on a table with 5 bad players than it is on a table with 1 or 2 on it, the reason being that v 1 or 2 bad players you can isolate players with a wider range of hands and get full value when you hit but v 5 bad players it almost becomes impossible to isolate and you then have to rely more on getting premium hands because widening your range in this situation becomes -EV. Because 2p/4p has more newbies playing on it i would expect the outdraws to be happening more often but if you adjust your game for this it should still be no problem as TINTIN proves every month. Good Luck. Daz.
Posted by _ARAZI_

thanks arazi,
tbh mate isn't playing against 5 bad players better than 2?
it's frustrating getting outdrawn when these type of players are basically playing 'any 2' but by playing more tables as i did playing dym's, it is possible to overcome this little problem.
not saying it's advisable to be playing 9 tables at nl20 up,but seems to be working for me at nl4 atm.
as you say tintin and i'm sure others show nl4 is beatable.think he plays around 9 tables or so most sessions too.coincidence maybe?

dev

devonfish5

In Response to Re: a new year..a new game...CASH..small steps but going forwards.:

9 tables is pretty insane. Much more productive to play 4 tables well, than 9 tables badly. My absolute limit is 7 tables. Anymore than that and my brain just cant process the information quick enough. My comfort range is six tables. But even thats not a given, if I am slightly tired I might run with 4. I agree you should be playing less. Perhaps drop to 3 or 4. If you turn a good profit in a fortnight, then add one. If that doesnt seem as profitable, move back down. Trial and error to some extent, but better to start less
Posted by calcalfold

thanks callcalfold,
playing 9 is easy peasy for me mate.
i did a lot of hard work last year building up number of tables ,my max 1 session was 24 which was a 'mare granted,but 15-18 was ok.
all about practise and dedication,anyone can do it...if they want.

dev

devonfish5

haven't posted for a few days.nothing very exciting happening apart from played nl10 over the w/end

sat won £19

sun lost £15.90

very happy with how i played both days. lost a few all-ins as you do but all in all no complaints


b/roll £323.33  down £14.87 this month)

c4p 1089 = £10.89 to come

i've got a £10 e/w bet on John Higgins @ 11/1 for snooker w/champs so even though i'm technically down £14.87 this month,i'm really a few pounds up.

going to continue playing nl10 and working on my game,just as long as the 'big' losses stay away.
my target is to try and at least get to the end of this month and still have over £300 in my account.

night all
(* *)
   ^
dev

LARSON7

Good stuff Dev!

How many tables are you playing at 10nl? As i said before i am confident you can more than beat this level, you are a really good player and know what you are doing at the tables, you know when to fold and how to get value.

Is it maybe best sticking to 1/ 2 tables at 10nl, till you have worked this level out? I'm sure there is slight differences between the 2.

From my experience, there is a bit more bluffing at 10nl, a bit better play, people are more likely to be making moves (compared to 4nl). In saying that, there is still a lot of  bad play, and a lot of situations that can be easily exploited.

You could even mix it up playing a bit of 4nl at the same time as 10nl multi-tabling which would aleviate any boredom. I don't tend to take "notes" unless its really obvious stuff like "shoves after 3x raise with AA". But it might be a good idea to sit down at the table, work out the dynamics, who is doing what, and how they are playing to geta picture on they play before getting really involved in the table just to get a grasp of things. If i have the time, i have now started looking at hands after they have been played to see what a player has, how they bet and what their tendencies are.

Good luck Dev

devonfish5

a few losing hands to look at...

	£0.05	£0.05	£16.16
westslay23	Big blind		£0.10	£0.15	£16.20
	Your hole cards	A K
cfcterry	Fold
devonfish5	Raise		£0.30	£0.45	£10.71
Cash_Daddy	Fold
x	Raise		£1.00	£1.45	£12.14
mm12	Fold
westslay23	Fold
devonfish5	Call		£0.70	£2.15	£10.01
Flop
		4 A 8
devonfish5	Check
x	Check
Turn
		8
devonfish5	Bet		£1.08	£3.23	£8.93
x	Call		£1.08	£4.31	£11.06
River
		K
devonfish5	Bet		£2.16	£6.47	£6.77
x	All-in		£11.06	£17.53	£0.00
devonfish5	All-in		£6.77	£24.30	£0.00
x	Unmatched bet		£2.13	£22.17	£2.13
devonfish5	Show	A K
x	Show	K K
x	Win	Full House, Kings and 8s	£20.77		£22.90

devonfish5

Amount	Pot	Balance
devonfish5	Small blind		£0.05	£0.05	£14.47
doca	Big blind		£0.10	£0.15	£8.10
	Your hole cards	K K
Mick5050	Fold
x	Raise		£0.40	£0.55	£12.53
cityslicke	Fold
devonfish5	Call		£0.35	£0.90	£14.12
doca	Fold
Flop
		3 2 J
devonfish5	Check
x	Bet		£0.60	£1.50	£11.93
devonfish5	Call		£0.60	£2.10	£13.52
Turn
		Q
devonfish5	Check
x	Bet		£1.20	£3.30	£10.73
devonfish5	Raise		£2.40	£5.70	£11.12
x	Call		£1.20	£6.90	£9.53
River
		A
devonfish5	Check
x	Check
devonfish5	Show	K K
x	Show	Q J
x	Win	Two Pairs, Queens and Jacks	£6.38		£15.91

devonfish5

Amount	Pot	Balance
LUCKINGOOD	Small blind		£0.05	£0.05	£11.56
x	Big blind		£0.10	£0.15	£10.46
	Your hole cards	K K
Mizroe	Fold
devonfish5	Raise		£0.30	£0.45	£11.19
LUCKINGOOD	Fold
x	Raise		£0.90	£1.35	£9.56
devonfish5	Call		£0.70	£2.05	£10.49
Flop
		7 9 2
x	Bet		£1.30	£3.35	£8.26
devonfish5	Raise		£2.60	£5.95	£7.89
x	All-in		£8.26	£14.21	£0.00
devonfish5	Call		£6.96	£21.17	£0.93
x	Show	A A
devonfish5	Show	K K
Turn
		Q
River
		2
x	Win	Two Pairs, Aces and 2s	£19.77		£19.77

LARSON7

Hey Dev, unlucky in this hand, but i would maybe have a look at your bet sizing.

Pre flop is fine, raise call the 3 bet.

On the flop, we have hut it so big, i would be betting big here to take control of the hand. I know it's a donk bet, but i'd be quite happy to raise to see where I am here. On the turn we are betting 1/3rd pot bet, opponent is probably calling here with any 2 cards, this bet isn't going to achieve anything.

On the flop i would have bet, 3/4 - pot size bet, if theres any raise, i'd be happy to be gettingit in.

Chances are he would call 1 street.

On the turn again i would be betting 3/4 - pot sized bet, there's no way opponent would have been calling this.

I would be betting about 2 pound on the flop and about 5.50-£6 on the turn.

Tho, very unlucky.

devonfish5

last 1

	£0.05	£0.05	£2.91
x	Big blind		£0.10	£0.15	£7.42
	Your hole cards	A A
scryer03	Call		£0.10	£0.25	£9.55
devonfish5	Raise		£0.40	£0.65	£9.45
gragun	Fold
guna55511	Fold
x	Raise		£1.20	£1.85	£6.22
scryer03	Fold
devonfish5	Raise		£2.70	£4.55	£6.75
x	Call		£1.80	£6.35	£4.42
Flop
		10 5 J
x	All-in		£4.42	£10.77	£0.00
devonfish5	Call		£4.42	£15.19	£2.33
x	Show	2 Q
devonfish5	Show	A A
Turn
		J
River
		8
x	Win	Flush to the Queen	£14.05		£14.05

LARSON7

Hand 2 we have a monster, i would be re-raising this significantly to build value, as it turns out a bit of a cooler, but with big starting hands we need to really build value and ramp the pressure up on our opponents.

Hand 3,Just very unlucky, total cooler.

LARSON7

Hand 4 well played, again just really unlucky the maniacs hut their hand.

devonfish5

In Response to Re: a new year..a new game...CASH..back playing nl10...Gulp:

Hey Dev, unlucky in this hand, but i would maybe have a look at your bet sizing. Pre flop is fine, raise call the 3 bet. On the flop, we have hut it so big, i would be betting big here to take control of the hand. I know it's a donk bet, but i'd be quite happy to raise to see where I am here. On the turn we are betting 1/3rd pot bet, opponent is probably calling here with any 2 cards, this bet isn't going to achieve anything. On the flop i would have bet, 3/4 - pot size bet, if theres any raise, i'd be happy to be gettingit in. Chances are he would call 1 street. On the turn again i would be betting 3/4 - pot sized bet, there's no way opponent would have been calling this. I would be betting about 2 pound on the flop and about 5.50-£6 on the turn. Tho, very unlucky.
Posted by LARSON7

i'm tired and not sure which hand you are talking about mate.
i'll come back and have another look tomorrow.
i'm cream crackerd now...time for bed.
night

dev

devonfish5

In Response to Re: a new year..a new game...CASH..back playing nl10...Gulp:

Good stuff Dev! How many tables are you playing at 10nl? As i said before i am confident you can more than beat this level, you are a really good player and know what you are doing at the tables, you know when to fold and how to get value. Is it maybe best sticking to 1/ 2 tables at 10nl, till you have worked this level out? I'm sure there is slight differences between the 2. From my experience, there is a bit more bluffing at 10nl, a bit better play, people are more likely to be making moves (compared to 4nl). In saying that, there is still a lot of  bad play, and a lot of situations that can be easily exploited. You could even mix it up playing a bit of 4nl at the same time as 10nl multi-tabling which would aleviate any boredom. I don't tend to take "notes" unless its really obvious stuff like "shoves after 3x raise with AA". But it might be a good idea to sit down at the table, work out the dynamics, who is doing what, and how they are playing to geta picture on they play before getting really involved in the table just to get a grasp of things. If i have the time, i have now started looking at hands after they have been played to see what a player has, how they bet and what their tendencies are. Good luck Dev
Posted by LARSON7

thanks mate,
i'm playing 2/4 tables atm any more and i'm simply playing the cards and not really taking alot of notice of what's going on.
i'm really happy with how  i played both days even though i'm sure i made some errors but that's to be expected i guess but i feel quite at home plating there atm. so i'll be back tomorrow i guess.
off to bed mate.
i'll post up more tomorrow/today.  lol

dev

liamboi11

hey dev think i`m the villian in hand 1 vul.

how you coping with the cash at 10nl now you enjoying it better?

also i`m back down to 10nl for a few days been playing bad l8ly at 20/30nl and no really got goin either breaking even or losing a cpl bi`s been goin on for about a fortnight so bak to where I have prob played most of my cash hopefully get a few winning sessions under my belt help with the confidence.

gl at tables buddy

devonfish5

In Response to Re: a new year..a new game...CASH..back playing nl10...Gulp:

hey dev think i`m the villian in hand 1 vul. how you coping with the cash at 10nl now you enjoying it better? also i`m back down to 10nl for a few days been playing bad l8ly at 20/30nl and no really got goin either breaking even or losing a cpl bi`s been goin on for about a fortnight so bak to where I have prob played most of my cash hopefully get a few winning sessions under my belt help with the confidence. gl at tables buddy
Posted by liamboi11

hi Liam,
 thanks mate,yeah it was you mate but no worries,you had the best hand p/f.thought i had you though.  lol
that damn King.
yeah,really enjoyed the last 2 days,starting to think a bit more about situations,especially position,when not to go with hands out of position,etc,.ex;even folded AK to cash_daddy's 50p raise when i was in sm blind one hand.  lol wouldn't normally but we both were deep stacked and i know what animals both he and yourself are. lol (especially after i'd just lost that all-in against you.)  lol

i also have learnt to 'play my own game' if you like,ie;play less tables like 4 max,(under advice..wink wink), as this helps with not only following what's going on more on each table, but also stops me from loading up my usual 9 that i was playing before,and trying to 'out do' cash_crazy,etc.  lol (not a good idea i found out to my cost...like £100 lol)
i'm still making mistakes i know, but i think i'm learning from playing here,and i would just like to thank ARAZI for his help in getting me back here again...thanks buddy.

yes mate,confidence plays a big part in poker doesn't it,and without it it's a nightmare,as i know.
you've done the right thing dropping levels and i'm sure you'll be winning again on your old stomping ground,as i'm pretty sure you did last night...with more than a little help from yours truly.  lol
(i know i go on about it,but being 'properly' rolled for each level is so important imo,that's why even with just over 30 buy-ins for nl10 i know a few bad sessions and i'd have to drop back down again.hopefully though that's not going to happen again this time though!!! lols)

no doubt see you at the tables soon mate.
best wishes,run good
(* *)
   ^
dev

devonfish5

thanks larson for all your posts mate.
yes i'm still working on my bet sizes as i need to.  lol
and also raising rather than checking when i hit big.
it's all a 'work in progress' and still got a long way to go.

actually enjoyed playing nl10 though this weekend..not sure if it'll last lol.

best wishes buddy.
i'm sure it won't be to many days away before i see you at one or more of my tables.  lols (wink wink)

(* *)
   ^
dev

liamboi11

yeah m8 just keep at the cash as I said before you are more than gd enough to beat this level and also yeah most a play is 6 tables, any more i`m just clicking buttons but i`ve been playin 6 tables on cash for about 8-9mths now.

I`ve also learned in the last year or so that BR is so important I used to play 50nl about year and half ago with 20 bi`s and whatever I won over that in a week I withdrew done ok for cpl months then one week lost like 11 bi`s and withdrew and went in a huff lol.but now I play cash with no less than 40 bi`s and drop down when running or playin bad which I never used to so must be learning something.

arazi is a good solid player if you are gettin free advice from him take it all on board and also tell him to pm me also I would happily take advice off him lol, but also he is a true gentleman at table never seen him moan about bad beats and always happy 2 chat need more like him at the tables imo.

not sayin i`m great but if you ever want advice of me regarding anything to do with 10nl just let me know m8 gl at tables.

devonfish5

In Response to Re: a new year..a new game...CASH..back playing nl10...Gulp:

yeah m8 just keep at the cash as I said before you are more than gd enough to beat this level and also yeah most a play is 6 tables, any more i`m just clicking buttons but i`ve been playin 6 tables on cash for about 8-9mths now. I`ve also learned in the last year or so that BR is so important I used to play 50nl about year and half ago with 20 bi`s and whatever I won over that in a week I withdrew done ok for cpl months then one week lost like 11 bi`s and withdrew and went in a huff lol.but now I play cash with no less than 40 bi`s and drop down when running or playin bad which I never used to so must be learning something. arazi is a good solid player if you are gettin free advice from him take it all on board and also tell him to pm me also I would happily take advice off him lol, but also he is a true gentleman at table never seen him moan about bad beats and always happy 2 chat need more like him at the tables imo. not sayin i`m great but if you ever want advice of me regarding anything to do with 10nl just let me know m8 gl at tables.
Posted by liamboi11

hi Liam,
nice post mate.
yes it's so easy to get carried away with it all when you are on a winning run isn't it,and you feel like no one can beat you.
then reality kicks in.  lol

yes i like 100 buy-ins ideally but i know that's not easy to always get so i'll change that to 50 for cash. lols
yes ARAZI is a great guy isn't he,and he really has helped me and given me the confidence to get back there and try again.
thanks mate,might just take you up on your offer for advice...god knows i need it.
i'll pass on massage to ARAZI...'you need help'  lols
gl buddy

dev

unknown_username

PM sent Dev mate

devonfish5

In Response to Re: a new year..a new game...CASH..back playing nl10...Gulp:

PM sent Dev mate
Posted by _ARAZI_

thanks Daz

devonfish5

6 tables nl10

lost £70.14

b/roll £253.14

only got myself to blame
played from 6.30pm to 3.30 am 9 hrs  too long

always thought this would happen...again.
just got no self discipline i guess.
i should be upset but i'm not as it's my own fault.
i guess playing with money won makes it easier to take.

don't know where i go from here,as this is a recurring problem and i don't know how i can fix it.
anyway,time for bed and i'll see how i feel tomorrow...
tired i think.  lol


dev

calcalfold

Seems a lot of people struggling with moving from 4>10nl.

Might be worth posting some of the losing hands on this thread, the decent 10nl and 20nl players could then tell you where you went wrong.

I mean its all well and good rebuilding at 4nl, but if you dont know why you lost then it will just happen again.


Good to have given it a shot though, unlike me the bankroll nit still at 4nl lol

devonfish5

In Response to Re: a new year..a new game...CASH..wheels fall off...again.:

Seems a lot of people struggling with moving from 4 />10nl. Might be worth posting some of the losing hands on this thread, the decent 10nl and 20nl players could then tell you where you went wrong. I mean its all well and good rebuilding at 4nl, but if you dont know why you lost then it will just happen again. Good to have given it a shot though, unlike me the bankroll nit still at 4nl lol
Posted by calcalfold

i'll post some up later

devonfish5

ok so it's the morning after the night that was...
you know what.

anyway,i'm feeling ok so no worries.
as i've said i've only got myself to blame,so it's back to the drawing board again.  lol

just had a quick look at no, of hands over £3 won and lost..

hands lost 14
hands won 19

don't know what to make of that?
probably not getting enough value i guess.

DOHHHHHHH

£280 on Ronnie to beat Ally Carter @ 1/4 will fix it Dev! 

grantorino

Hands on last page

1  4b/c pre or fold  river is close to a fold

 

2 3b pre either raise flop or c/c down

3&4 are fine, I might 4b pre in 3

Lambert180

Very hard to take anything from the stats of pots won/lost over £3 Devon.

Best thing to do is look through the actual hands and ask yourself a few questions. When you were betting postflop can you realistically be called by worse hands? If so, did you bet enough to get good value? When you were calling bets postflop is it believable that you're being bet into with a worse hand or are they gonna have better than you more often? Were you calling down with draws withuot the correct odds? Were you calling down with draws when raising, might have been the better option? etc etc.

OR post some hands in the clinic.