StayOrGo UKPC Hand Review: HAND 59: DEJA VU. DO YOU CALL AN ALL IN WITH POCKET JACKS HERE?

bbMike · June 2016

In Response to Re: StayOrGo UKPC Hand Review: 15TH HAND REVEALED + START OF 16TH HAND (GET INVOLVED, PLAY IT AS ME):

In Response to Re: StayOrGo UKPC Hand Review: 15TH HAND REVEALED + START OF 16TH HAND (GET INVOLVED, PLAY IT AS ME) : I think the cold caller will call one bet a reasonable amount of the time, but with our flush draw we can bet most turns and apply pressure to a lot of his hands. Also if we want to be value betting hands like QQ KK AA it makes sense to have some hands we cbet as bluff. Our ace high as it stands is unlikely good so semi bluffing it down the streets seems like a good option. We have pretty good equity vs most his holdings anyway so betting allows us to build a pot for when we do improve. I would probably be looking to fire 40-50% pot on the flop to keep his calling range wider and put in a slightly chunkier bet on the turn so that the turn bet has more fold equity. I would be surprised if the flop cbet got reraised by the cold caller, as he shouldn't really have 8x in his hand and 66/88 is really hard to have. I probably just call the raise, as I would with AA if I had it here. If the earlier position player showed aggression I would be more concerned, as I think he's the most likely to have an 8
Posted by FeelGroggy

Nice one Groggy, that is what I was trying to say!

RyanC7 · June 2016

Really don't see any merit in checking the flop here, we have a tonne of equity against a pretty well defined range (BTN) and can apply pressure on a tonne of turns. I also don't really see how we can win a lot chips by taking this line if we are to improve.

hhyftrftdr · June 2016

Yeah what Groggy said, he can articulate better than me.

This is just such a good spot to realise our range advantage over 2 or 3 streets, with great equity if we get stationed.

bbMike · June 2016

Given the check call on the flop I would be check calling the turn then leading the river. Unless he flopped the house the Kd is a really bad card for him so you might think he checks behind a lot of the mid pairs we think he has, but some oppo might just think they can bully off a range like yours on a paired boarded with 3 suited cards. So as ever it's going to be read dependent. I don't think you'd get much value from check raising this turn, so instead leading river might look weird enough that he pays you off.

StayOrGo · June 2016

In Response to Re: StayOrGo UKPC Hand Review: 15TH HAND REVEALED + START OF 16TH HAND (GET INVOLVED, PLAY IT AS ME):

A number of factors here make this a very interesting hand a spot I feel a lot of us get into. Firstly we are representing a very strong range by 3 betting an UTG+1 raise, then you have the rather frustrating fact that the button cold calls your 3 bet with the UTG still to act AND the fact that you will now be OOP and THEN the original raiser calls. Then there is the flop. Over cards and a the nut FD, usually a dream flop for a 3 bettor. But its a paired board, against two strong percieved ranges and we are OOP to one of them. Ranging the UTG we can rule out AA and probably KK and AKo variations. He likely has 99-QQ, AKs and maybe AQs. I would also rule out AA for the button (not fully but versus a UTG raise and a player willing to raise that player then AA would like to get it HUs at the least and hopefully even it all in pre against one of you). Same for KK, I cant see button flatting KK and letting 2 opponents in. It strikes as AKs or QQ, maybe JJ. The point is if we are to bet this flop we know that this is likely going to be a 2 or even 3 barrell situation. If we check and call i dont think we give away the value of our hand as we could easily be doing this with AA,KK so therefore we can try and hit without being blown off our hand, get some information but also set up a situation where we could c/r the turn and look super strong wether we hit or not. If anyone raises or continues after that we can be almost certain we are behind and get away on the river.

Cheers for this Craig, it's a good summation of the dilemma.
Posted by CraigSG1

StayOrGo · June 2016

OK, we've had a few posts in still referring to the flop play. With Groggy's thoughts of C-betting 40-50% pot and following it up with a bet on most turns being highly supported.

So temporarily back to the flop question.

My "problem" with this, is as follows:

Lets just say that the cold caller (Button) does have an over pair.

He's certainly going to at least call the flop bet, and not knowing what the turn will bring, he may well call the turn too. It is also possible that the UTG+1 may have an over pair too, but not as likely as the Button.

Let say we are fortunate enough for just the Button to have the over pair and that he doesn't have a diamond, and that his overpair is < JJ. That would be a lot of things in our favour as it was.

Lets just say, he has TT (no diamond), if we got it all in now, we'd have 48.69% equity. Generally I like to feel that I have > 50% in these scenarios. The problem for me is the paired board. It gives the TT four outs that counterfeit our flush or over card. And remember this is a potentially favourable scenario.

I am much more comfortable playing this hand aggressively on a non-paired board where our equity against TT would go up to 54.14%. This difference may not seem much but it's significant imo. It is also possible, (but I agree, unlikely) that he already has a full house or quads and that we are virtually/actually drawing dead.

I totally respect Danny and his supporters' opinions here, but I feel the flop play for me, on balance, is a check/call.

Also Danny and I have differing views on playing hands like AJs pre flop, when faced with an open raise. I like to either fold or 3bet and Danny is often happy to call. We still often disagree on these sorts of things.

As I am sure some of you may know. I helped Danny with his game in the early stages (And I am very pleased with how well he has done)

There is an important point here for anyone receiving coaching/mentoring. And also for those giving the advice.

My advice if you are being mentored/coached is as follows:

1) Take it all in with an open mind.

2) Try the advice, see how it works for you.

3) As you improve and develop your own style, use what works for you and ditch what doesn't.

Danny has done this supremely.

It's a bit like when you are a kid. Everything your parents tell you about their perspective on life you deem to be true, because you know no different. However as you grow up, you realise that some of those things you agree with and some you don't. So you develop the good ones, and re-align your opinions of those that don't serve you. Poker coaching should be like this imo, and the coach also should never be so rigid that he enforces his style onto his student.

I helped Danny with the fundamentals, but now he has his own wings, he flies in his own way. And good luck to him! (Same is true in a way with my son Gary, Limp2Lose)

Cheers and GL to all those who are trying to improve their game, and also to those helping them to do so.

G

StayOrGo · June 2016

I'll leave this over-night now for people to voice their opinions of the best play on the turn, under the proviso that we have check/called the flop.

Cheers,

G

unknown_username · June 2016

Check call the turn i would , pot control , the problem doing this tho it gives oppos chance to house up but my thinking is they could already have the house so keeping losses to a minimin,i am always wary of paired boards.

an opinion of a novice well not a novice but a low stakes player hope you dont mind

FeelGroggy · June 2016

In Response to Re: StayOrGo UKPC Hand Review: 16TH HAND FLOP ACTION AND TURN CARD REVEALED. ** WHAT WOULD YOU DO? **:

OK, we've had a few posts in still referring to the flop play. With Groggy's thoughts of C-betting 40-50% pot and following it up with a bet on most turns being highly supported. So temporarily back to the flop question. My "problem" with this, is as follows: Lets just say that the cold caller (Button) does have an over pair. He's certainly going to at least call the flop bet, and not knowing what the turn will bring, he may well call the turn too. It is also possible that the UTG+1 may have an over pair too, but not as likely as the Button. Let say we are fortunate enough for just the Button to have the over pair and that he doesn't have a diamond, and that his overpair is < JJ. That would be a lot of things in our favour as it was. Lets just say, he has TT (no diamond), if we got it all in now, we'd have 48.69% equity. Generally I like to feel that I have /> 50% in these scenarios. The problem for me is the paired board. It gives the TT four outs that counterfeit our flush or over card. And remember this is a potentially favourable scenario. I am much more comfortable playing this hand aggressively on a non-paired board where our equity against TT would go up to 54.14%. This difference may not seem much but it's significant imo. It is also possible, (but I agree, unlikely) that he already has a full house or quads and that we are virtually/actually drawing dead. I totally respect Danny and his supporters' opinions here, but I feel the flop play for me, on balance, is a check/call. Also Danny and I have differing views on playing hands like AJs pre flop, when faced with an open raise. I like to either fold or 3bet and Danny is often happy to call. We still often disagree on these sorts of things. As I am sure some of you may know. I helped Danny with his game in the early stages (And I am very pleased with how well he has done) There is an important point here for anyone receiving coaching/mentoring. And also for those giving the advice. My advice if you are being mentored/coached is as follows: 1) Take it all in with an open mind. 2) Try the advice, see how it works for you. 3) As you improve and develop your own style, use what works for you and ditch what doesn't. Danny has done this supremely. It's a bit like when you are a kid. Everything your parents tell you about their perspective on life you deem to be true, because you know no different. However as you grow up, you realise that some of those things you agree with and some you don't. So you develop the good ones, and re-align your opinions of those that don't serve you. Poker coaching should be like this imo, and the coach also should never be so rigid that he enforces his style onto his student. I helped Danny with the fundamentals, but now he has his own wings, he flies in his own way. And good luck to him! (Same is true in a way with my son Gary, Limp2Lose) Cheers and GL to all those who are trying to improve their game, and also to those helping them to do so. G
Posted by StayOrGo

:-)

i think the beauty of poker is that there's so much that's open to interpretation

When we hit the flush I actually quite like a smallish donk lead. I think if we consider his range he has a lot of weak SD value hands as opposed to air which he'll keep betting with. He could also percieve a smallish lead as a blocker bet. I would also be looking to bet the river as well. If we get raised I'd just call and then check call river

Essexphil · June 2016

This is why i would bet the 2 streets in my earlier post-my betting suggests good overpair rather than the flush. hope to get action from weaker flushes etc

StayOrGo · June 2016

In Response to Re: StayOrGo UKPC Hand Review: 16TH HAND FLOP ACTION AND TURN CARD REVEALED. ** WHAT WOULD YOU DO? **:

This is why i would bet the 2 streets in my earlier post-my betting suggests good overpair rather than the flush. hope to get action from weaker flushes etc
Posted by Essexphil

Hi Phil, yes I understand that logic.

Cheers,

G

StayOrGo · June 2016

UKPC2016 SIXTEENTH HAND: (REMAINING TURN ACTION AND RIVER CARD)

===================================================

Blinds 250/500 Antie 75

Chip Count: 105K

Starting Hand: AdJd

UTG+1 (Has an aggressive style, 80k stack) raises to 1.3K, I 3bet in the HJ to 3.5k, Button (Has 90k) "Cold Calls", blinds folds, UTG+1 calls.

FLOP: 8d,8c,6d

I decide to check. The cold caller makes it 4.5k, UTG+1 folds and I decide, for reasons discussed previously, to just call.

TURN: Kd (So we hit the nut flush)

I feel that my opponent is likely to have, 77,99,TT,JJ or QQ, so with the King and the flush hitting, I feel he will likely fold if I bet. Also there is a possibility that I am behind to 66,88 or KK, so I decide to check.

I am expecting him to check behind with 77,99,TT,JJ,QQ as he has some showdown value, so I wouldn't normally expect him to bet these hands.

HE DOES BET THOUGH AND HE MAKES IT 8K. (From what I could tell, he didn't seem too dis-pleased about the flush hitting, although clearly this was a subjective opinion)

I wasn't expecting the C-bet, so had to think quite hard here. I wasn't folding, but should I re-raise or just call. It could still be as I originally thought, a pocket pair less than a King, just played differently to what I would expect. It could be a slow played AA, that I am also now ahead off.

Could it be a worse flush?

If I thought he had a pocket pair, then clearly he can't have a flush. Also I have the Ace of Diamonds, so his pre flop range that makes a flush is almost non-existent imo, KdQd maybe. So I discounted a flush. I was beginning to suspect that he did have a house, but that would very specifically have to be 66 or KK, and a remote chance of quads with 88. I JUST CALL.

RIVER: 5s

I CHECK AGAIN, MY OPPONENT PUTS OUT A BIG BET. 22K.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

SO WE HAVE CHECK/CALLED THE FLOP, CHECK/CALLED THE TURN, CHECKED THE RIVER.

WE HAVE THE NUT FLUSH ON A PAIRED BOARD. (CALL, RE-RAISE OR FOLD TO HIS RIVER BET?)

FEEL FREE TO COMMENT. THOUGHTS/OPINIONS WELCOME FROM ALL!

Cheers,

G

weecheez1 · June 2016

It would be a crying call I think he has a house raising does not seem like a good idea here unless you think he is really really loose

FeelGroggy · June 2016

yeah i'm just snap calling we are so underepresented and think we easily win enough to justify calling. I don't think there's any value in raising here on the paired board

Essexphil · June 2016

There is about 50k in the pot now-cannot fold here. Similarly, with the possible exception of the K flush, most losing hands would fold to a raise. I don't think this is a crying call-i think you are about 50% to win the hand. Snap call for me

F_Ivanovic · June 2016

^ Pot is not 50k but 37k. So we have to call 22k into a pot that will be 81k and need to be good just 27% of the time.

I agree with your range StayOrGo in that it's pretty unlikely villain has a worse flush (unless you had specific reads that he was loose and capable of cold calling pretty wide - KdQd is not possible btw as Kd is on board :P ) - However, our range looks pretty weak here - we probably have a decent amount of QQ-JJ and some AK hands (maybe AdKx) so it's possible he could bluff here - at the same time, it's hard to see what he can be bluffing with. It's possible he had TT/99 (maybe just with Td or 9d combos) that decides to bet turn & river (after going for thin value/protection OTF) trying to fold out your QQ-JJ - not all players are capable of turning made hands into bluffs, but if he is capable then he only needs 2 combos of it (eg. TcTd, TsTd) for us to have 33.3% equity and making a call correct*

Also, even though it's pretty unlikely villain has a worse flush w/o any reads it's possible he calls here pre-flop with a hand like 9dTd. Which would need only 1 bluff combo then to make a call correct.

Overall I think we are getting too good odds and just have too strong a bluff-catcher to fold. AdKx might be better to call since we block his KK combos and his nut flushes but I think this is OK to call too.

* I discounted 66 in villains range since I think most would fold this pre. If he does call it pre then we would need him to have 3 bluff/value hands combined instead of 2 - which I think is reasonable since if he's calling 66 pre he's calling wider than we expect and might have more worse hands he wants to turn into a bluff or be more likely to have 9dTd.

Itsover4u · June 2016

Def the most interesting spot so far - but without going to deep into it I think I am calling here at least 95% of the time.

The player would have to be super Tight for me to lay this down.

mattprawn · June 2016

I really hope you called this Graham. I want to know what he had!

unknown_username · June 2016

call

Itsover4u · June 2016

What are the chances or what did you reckon the chances were that this guy could be floating a pired board knowing it was very likely to be scary for you on later streets?

When you under rep your hand by checking the turn it would be the perfect turn for him to start trying to rep / push you off with any float he has made.

The big bet on the river polarises his hand to super stong or air and the more I read the more I feel like he could have an airball here....

Just a different perspective

StayOrGo · June 2016

In Response to Re: StayOrGo UKPC Hand Review: 16TH HAND, TURN ACTION AND RIVER CARD REVEALED. ** WHAT WOULD YOU DO? **:

^ Pot is not 50k but 37k. So we have to call 22k into a pot that will be 81k and need to be good just 27% of the time. I agree with your range StayOrGo in that it's pretty unlikely villain has a worse flush (unless you had specific reads that he was loose and capable of cold calling pretty wide - KdQd is not possible btw as Kd is on board :P ) - However, our range looks pretty weak here - we probably have a decent amount of QQ-JJ and some AK hands (maybe AdKx) so it's possible he could bluff here - at the same time, it's hard to see what he can be bluffing with. It's possible he had TT/99 (maybe just with Td or 9d combos) that decides to bet turn & river (after going for thin value/protection OTF) trying to fold out your QQ-JJ - not all players are capable of turning made hands into bluffs, but if he is capable then he only needs 2 combos of it (eg. TcTd, TsTd) for us to have 33.3% equity and making a call correct* Also, even though it's pretty unlikely villain has a worse flush w/o any reads it's possible he calls here pre-flop with a hand like 9dTd. Which would need only 1 bluff combo then to make a call correct. Overall I think we are getting too good odds and just have too strong a bluff-catcher to fold. AdKx might be better to call since we block his KK combos and his nut flushes but I think this is OK to call too. * I discounted 66 in villains range since I think most would fold this pre. If he does call it pre then we would need him to have 3 bluff/value hands combined instead of 2 - which I think is reasonable since if he's calling 66 pre he's calling wider than we expect and might have more worse hands he wants to turn into a bluff or be more likely to have 9dTd.
Posted by F_Ivanovic

Hi Ivan. Opps, yes indeed KdQd is not possible :=), apologies. I will disclose his hand shortly, although again your logic is very clear.

F_Ivanovic · June 2016

In Response to Re: StayOrGo UKPC Hand Review: 16TH HAND, TURN ACTION AND RIVER CARD REVEALED. ** WHAT WOULD YOU DO? **:

What are the chances or what did you reckon the chances were that this guy could be floating a pired board knowing it was very likely to be scary for you on later streets? When you under rep your hand by checking the turn it would be the perfect turn for him to start trying to rep / push you off with any float he has made. The big bet on the river polarises his hand to super stong or air and the more I read the more I feel like he could have an airball here.... Just a different perspective
Posted by Itsover4u

Villain bet flop - he didn't float it. Also remember he cold called a 3b pre which from 95%+ players is going to be a medium- big pair or a hand like AJs-AQs. He then bet flop 3 way - which seems unlikely with an AJ/AQs hand that doesn't have a flush draw/diamond. Again OTT it's going to be hard for him to bluff without a diamond.

The only bluffs that make sense are 99/TT with a diamond but lots of players won't be turning these hands into bluffs.

As I said, I don't think it's a fold w/o reads b/c of how few bluff/value combos are needed (2 or 3 depending on if villain has 66 in his range) but it's a spot that I wouldn't be surprised to be behind.

StayOrGo · June 2016

Thanks for all the feedback. Showdown details of hand 16 below:

UKPC2016 SIXTEENTH HAND: (SHOWDOWN)

==============================

Starting Hand: AdJd

Board: 8d,8c,6d,Kd,5s

I reluctantly call my opponent's 22K river bet.

He shows 6s6c for a flopped full house.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My Thoughts:

It was hard to put him on 66, as I think most people fold this pre, when faced with an UTG+1 raise and a 3bet from the HJ.

However, we were very deep and he was in position. So I can see why he may have felt that he had the odds to set mine.

Anyhow, this turned out to be quite a dent to my stack. :=(

When I reflect upon this hand, I think I could easily have gone broke here. I'm sure if it was a £33 BH I'd be happy to get it in on the flop.

This is the good thing about playing higher stake live tournaments. It forces us to really think, rather than just go for a punt.

Thanks for all the feedback, if any of you would like to post a summation from your perspective, regarding this hand, I'd be happy for you to do so.

Cheers,

G

P.S. It pains me to say that I lost my composure/focus shortly after this hand, and followed this up with some REALLY bad mistakes, which I will detail in due couse.

#ITS_ALL_STARTING_TO_GO_PEAR_SHAPED

StayOrGo · June 2016

I was chatting to FeelGroggy in chat on SkyPoker (£55 Speed BH I think it was) and asked him if he had seen the thread regarding the 66 yet, and what he thought?

He said he did. Didn't say too much about the 66, but mentioned, that he was very much looking forward to:

"THE MELTDOWN."

It wasn't exactly the words I would have used, but good for dramatic effect, so let the MELTDOWN begin. (Hands 17-20)

UKPC2016 SEVENTEENTH HAND:

======================

Blinds 250/500 Antie 75

Chip Count: 67K

Starting Hand: AsQs

I raise to 1,100 from UTG+2 with AQs and get called by both blinds.

FLOP: Ad,6d,4s

SB checks, BB checks, I check.

TURN: 9d

SB checks, BB checks, I bet 2K (into a pot of 4K), SB calls, BB folds.

RIVER: Jh

SB checks, I bet 4k, SB calls and shows a set of 9's.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My thoughts:

PRE FLOP

Standard.

POST FLOP

Well the first thing people are probably thinking is, "Why didn't I C-bet the flop?" This clearly would be the "normal course of action". The truth is, I thought they'd probably fold, and decided to check to perhaps get them to bluff or to get a turn bet paid.

I do tend to mix up how I play these hands in these spots, as the thought of not getting paid for my hand is always lurking in the back on my mind, so I will often take a chance at being outdrawn to keep worse hands in.

I don't really know, whether this was right, there was a sense of loss after the previous hand, and I wanted to maximise any potential chip gain.

TURN:

Didn't really want to see a diamond, but they both checked again, so I bet 2K into a 4k pot. In my mind this was just a standard value bet, and I certainly didn't want them to see a free card to hit another diamond.

RIVER:

The SB checks again. I think I'm ahead and that he may call with worse, so I lead out 4k. He snaps me off with a set of 9's.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Feel free to comment.

StayOrGo · June 2016

UKPC2016 EIGHTEENTH HAND:

======================

Blinds 250/500 Antie 75

Chip Count: 59K

Starting Hand: (No recollection)

I have to say that my notes are sadly lacking for hand 18. The only comment I recorded on my phone is that "I mis-read the board and didn't realise there was a 4th club. :=(

All I remember is that I led out on the river with a straight, believing there to be three clubs and two spades on the board. I got called, he showed his hand.

I remember thinking, blimey you called me light, but I felt great that I had won a nice pot.

Then, to my horror, the dealer gave the chips to my opponent. :=(

Not a nice experience, as I looked in desperation at the card I believed to be a spade and saw that it had curly things on it. :=)

Oh dear!

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My thoughts:

Well, if I actually typed in my thoughts here, I'd probably get barred from the forum, so I will leave that to your imagination.

Feel free to ridicule. I don't even know how much I lost in the hand. I can only assume that I was spitting feathers and recording exactly what happened was somewhat hi-jacked by the commotion going on inside my mind.

StayOrGo · June 2016

UKPC2016 NINETEENTH HAND:

=====================

Blinds 300/600 Antie 75

Chip Count: 54K

Starting Hand: AhTs

PRE-FLOP

UTG limps, Neil Channing calls on the Button (or so I thought), I make it 3K.

UTG asks the dealer if that was an under-raise? (Opps, what's going on)

I saw Neil has one 5k chip in the middle, but I had my headphones on, and as such, I didn't hear him announce, raise, or how much.

Anyway, I pretended that I did actually know what was going on. The dealer said to the UTG guy, that my raise size was fine. UTG folded and Neil called.

FLOP: Ac,7c,8h

I lead out 4K (into a 7.5K pot)

TURN: Kd

I lead out 9K (into a 15.5K pot)

RIVER: Qs

I check, Neil checks. I show, AT, Neil mucks

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My thoughts:

PRE FLOP

Well what a disaster pre flop, I totally didn't know what was going on. I would have folded AT pre, if I knew that Neil had raised. But anyway, having unintentionally 3bet (some people may class it as a 4bet, because of the limper), I now had to make the best of it.

POST FLOP

A fairly standard lead out.

TURN:

Again, I'd suggest this is a fairly standard lead out.

RIVER:

I decide to check the river for pot control, and also, at the time I thought a lot of two pair combo's could have got there. (Although I don't see that too much now) It could however induce a bluff from a missed draw. Neil checks behind, I show my AT and Neil mucks.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My Thoughts:

Again, another terrible lapse in concentration. I got away with this one. In fact it worked in my favour, but I should never have been in the hand. I guess the question is, "Did I miss out on value by not betting the river?"

Feel free to comment.

StayOrGo · June 2016

UKPC2016 TWENTIETH HAND:

=====================

Blinds 300/600 Antie 75

Chip Count: 70K

Starting Hand: AdTd

PRE-FLOP

I raise to 1.4K UTG+1, with ATs, Neil Channing calls in the BB.

(Sad fact, I am so superstitious, that I never like to bet 13 hundred, so I made it 14 hundred, where in fact, 13 hundred would be more in line with my style. Still having therapy to get over this, along with my standard OCD of always having to have my chips up the "right" way. :=)

FLOP: Jd7d3c

Neil checks, I lead out 2.5K (into a 3.8K pot), Neil calls.

TURN: 9s

Neil checks, I check

RIVER: Qs

Neil checks. I decide to "give up" and check behind. Neil shows 63s and wins with bottom pair.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My Thoughts:

I think this was a poorly played hand by me.

Although, to be fair to myself, it was a tricky board, I think a bet on the turn or river would probably have won the day, but I couldn't find it.

Thoughts welcome.

Who double barrels? Who triple barrels? Who bets river after checking flop? Who just gives up?

Feel free to comment.

G

FeelGroggy · June 2016

In Response to Re: StayOrGo UKPC Hand Review: ** THE MELTDOWN BEGINS ** LETS GET THE **** OUT THE WAY. HANDS SEVENTEEN TO TWENTY:

UKPC2016 TWENTIETH HAND: ===================== Blinds 300/600 Antie 75 Chip Count: 70K Starting Hand: AdTd PRE-FLOP I raise to 1.4K UTG+1, with ATs, Neil Channing calls in the BB. (Sad fact, I am so superstitious, that I never like to bet 13 hundred, so I made it 14 hundred, where in fact, 13 hundred would be more in line with my style. Still having therapy to get over this, along with my standard OCD of always having to have my chips up the "right" way. :=) FLOP: Jd7d3c Neil checks, I lead out 2.5K (into a 3.8K pot), Neil calls. TURN: 9s Neil checks, I check RIVER: Qs Neil checks. I decide to "give up" and check behind. Neil shows 63s and wins with bottom pair. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- My Thoughts: I think this was a poorly played hand by me. Although, to be fair to myself, it was a tricky board, I think a bet on the turn or river would probably have won the day, but I couldn't find it. Thoughts welcome. Who double barrels? Who triple barrels? Who bets river after checking flop? Who just gives up? Feel free to comment. G
Posted by StayOrGo

So there's 8.8k on the turn. I think I would go in the region of 6k-6.5k and apply pressure to his non jack hands and build the pot for when we make our flush / straight. A queen is a river I would choose to triple barrel here, if my turn bet was called. It's a card that's not good for many of Neil's hand's and having a ten reduces the chance he has a straight (although that is unlikely anyway) I think Neil would be hard pressed to think of many hands we could have that would play as bet bet bet here and be bluffs, given that the board is really connected.

IDONKCALLU · June 2016

hi graham just see this thread a good thread at that posting hands and answering questiosn on how others would play the hand on the seventeenth hand u had a q ss can i ask why u didnt c-bet the flop here i would imo

that last hand u posted i like your play id probably double barrel here but if called deffo give up on the river

F_Ivanovic · June 2016

Hand 18 I would check the river with there being a 4 flush on board.

Sorry, couldn't resist! :P

I think hand 17 I would always bet flop with us having a BDNFD since there are more runouts where we can get 3 streets of value (and it is disguised too)

With another AQ hand (eg. AhQh) I'd be happy to check for deception/balance and be happy to get 2 streets of value on turn & river.

Hand 19 there is zero value in a river bet IMO: can't see any worse hands calling here.

Hand 20 I agree with FeelGroggy. I would definitely be barrelling this turn - it's a great card for us - we can fold out his 7x (and any worse) and build a nice pot in-case we hit our flush or straight. Qs is a card I would be triple barrelling with too. As played after you check turn I would go for a river bet.

StayOrGo UKPC Hand Review: HAND 59: DEJA VU. DO YOU CALL AN ALL IN WITH POCKET JACKS HERE?

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